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450 Starting Problem..

Discussion in 'Helicopters' started by Rob Lancaster, Aug 13, 2018.

< Dual Rate | Gps >
  1. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    Now with lipos some will claim that you don't need to break them in. I have also hear you can break them. The results are not consistent enuff to say it works at all.

    I have seen the numbers and if done correctly you will see some kind of drop in the IR readings. What is being claimed is that during your low current charge and low current discharge the chemistry is settling in. It's also claimed to do 5 charge discharge cycles for the break in. Now you can still fly during break in just don't do anything hard. Work on your hovering and orientation stuff . Land charge wash rinse repeat 5 times.

    As for your servo, anything could.have happened. You could have.bumped something while it was.on that screen, like butt dialing.
     


  2. Rob Lancaster

    Rob Lancaster Member

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    Lets think about this for a minute.
    I would have had to bumped two settings (servo reverse and the aileron swash setting) at the same time... Their in two different menus. Nope don't think that's it.
    Anyway my nav lights mysteriously started to working again. What up with that. LOL.
    I think some how when the P-BOX fried it corrupted the programming in the servo or RX...

    Question: where is the programming stored for the servo?

    Years ago I had my DX8 channel 7 change programming all by its self... That's where my nav lights are controlled from. I did a firmware update and I had no trouble from it up until now. I know there's something wrong in there. For the servo to flip 180 degrees from a +75 to a -75 and have it move in the right direction now with a -75 setting is to much for me to handle. I'm afraid to fly it.
    I could maybe see if the settings glitch and the settings went to a setting that is not right I could just reprogram it. But to have this happen, for me to reverse the programming to get it to function properly after all theses years, I really think something wrong.
    I can't be the only guy this has happed too, right?
     
  3. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    It's a spektrum radio, they have been know for some crazy stuff. As for the servo settings; i believe it's stored in the radio for that model. That's why Specktrum uses model match technology. Futaba owners have to be very careful about what model is in the radio at the time of power cycling stuff. Unfortunately Futaba does not or at least they didn't a few years ago have anything like this.

    As for the butt dialing thing, I not saying thats what happened; what I am saying is that it is possible for that to happen, unlikely but possible.

    Lastly if you are on one of the newer generation DX series radios, I would highly suggest you transfer all your models over to the SD card at some point, then transfer the data to a more permanent media like a hard drive. Updates have been known to cause data corruption or worse like bricking the radio.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  4. Rob Lancaster

    Rob Lancaster Member

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    Ah haaa!
    I knew it wasn't me!
    Ok now we're get'n somewhere.
    One thing though, what is bricking??
     
  5. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    Making the radio no more worky. It won't turn on, boot or anything. It becomes a $300 paper weight dust collector on the desk.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  6. Rob Lancaster

    Rob Lancaster Member

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    I would be pissed!! And demand that Horizon Hobby replace it. That's not a warrantee that should be a major recall and they should be accountable!
     
  7. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    If the update causes the radio to fail and there was no fault on the owner usually you can send it back for fixing. Trying to prove that the end user had no fault in it is tough to prove.

    Lots of things can happen that causes a radio or and electronics to fail like that. Now in regards to the radio things like the battery dying, unknown corrupt sd card / sd card corrupting during update, turning off the radio during update, download got corrupted and the most rare is an actually bad update at the code level. So anything can cause it to happen. Updating firmware is risky on many levels, its a end user beware.

    I don't want to scare anyone but this is the reality, the likelihood is rare but it is plausible and can happen. I have heard stories of people bricking a castle esc, they sent it back, paid a small fee and it was fixed.

    After downloading anything off the net in regards to firmware, software verify the data against the md5 hash. If that test fails you know the file is corrupt before you even think about launching it. Most developers offer an md5 hash of the code base.

    if i didnt say it yet back up your radio models on a regular basis, especially if your a tweeker. Never rely on an SD Card or thumb drive as permanent backup solutions. All it takes is one oops or age to cause it to corrupt. Professional photographers use no less than 5 sd cards for one photo shoot. If one card fails they don't lose the entire photo shoot just a few dozen images.
     
  8. Rob Lancaster

    Rob Lancaster Member

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    I don't understand the md5 hash part?
    and if a models setting are corrupt , I don't want to save them do I?
     
  9. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    save them before they get corrupt. Once the file is saved, if you should have an issue with the radio and have to start over then you have the files to put back on without having to re do all of your setups. One heli or plank that's not the problem, its when you have a dozen aircraft that need to be reloaded.

    Maybe @rdosk could explain cleaner than I can. I know how to do the checks but I don't really know how to explain it in simple terms. Google or youtube on how to run an md5 hash on windows.

    At the very top level the final software candidate is ran through a hashing program. That program spits out a very long "signature" of numbers and letters. Once you download the software you run the version you got through the hash and it compares the two signatures. If they match your file is safe and good to go. Its a way to ensure your getting what your supposed to.
     
  10. Rob Lancaster

    Rob Lancaster Member

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    Ok, I got more research to do. Thanks for the info! I'm always learning something when I get on this site, way cool!! I'm going to get to it and I'll let everyone knows how it goes.
     
  11. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    For now don't worry about the md5 stuff. Specktrum does a great job of ensuring integrity of their software.

    Do make a back up of your models though. Trust me I have lost more data due to poor backup habbits.
     
  12. Rob Lancaster

    Rob Lancaster Member

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    Just got back from the store with a new SD card for the mission.
    I figure I only have 3 models but I always wanted to back them up so now's the time.
    Thanks chief,
    Rster...
     
  13. Rob Lancaster

    Rob Lancaster Member

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    Ok folks here's were I'm at now...
    First I tried to copy my 3 models to a SD card, no go, even the book doesn't make sense at all... How do I copy to an SD card for model back up? Ok, I know, what do you expect from a greasy Honda guy , LOL.....

    Next, I have version 3.01 but I feel it's corrupt so I want to just reload it. I get as far as putting the card with the downloaded 3.01 version on it, in the radio and turn it on. The screen shows for a split second (to quick) the Spektrum logo and the install bar. But after that the radio just turns on and the corruption remains. The new overwrite won't install...

    What do you guys think now? All I can say isssss,,,, I'm glad you all are out there for times like this! And because of that, this hobby is wild! Ha! I just hope I don't have to send the TX to Horizon for an digital lobotomy... :sorrow:
     
  14. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    One of the die hard specktrun guys is going to have to help. I have a DX6 but I rarely use it. I use my VControl the most. I know to send the model to as card is under the system menu that you access at boot time. That's about it.
     
  15. Rob Lancaster

    Rob Lancaster Member

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    Firmware problem I think...
    Spektrum guy; help!
     
  16. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    There were some SD cards that came with Spektrum Tx's that would not work to update them. If you used then, you would fall into a constant reboot because there is a cluster or something on the card that is bad. Try doing this with a known good card and see how it goes.
     
  17. Rob Lancaster

    Rob Lancaster Member

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    Hi guys! I got good news!
    I finally figured out how to store my models on the SD card. Man, I wonder how I can miss this feature in the system settings and the book too. What a maroon I am! It's really very simple...

    Anyway I've been working on the DX8s programming.
    I discovered that the only thing that got so-called corrupted was model #2 my 450 heli. The other models programs are still intact. Note the time the fault appeared in the #2 model. The radio was set to the #2 model and that was the only model affected.

    However, I wanted to reload the radios firmware just incase. Note, I didn't change the version. I've been running the latest 3.01 version for awhile now. I really needed the update so I could run a LiPO battery. But when I tried to reload the 3.01 version again it won't reload it, it just turn on the radio like normal. I wonder if the radio won't reload the same version a second time? I thought if reloaded it would just overwrite the old version if it got corrupted.

    Next I copied all the settings for the 450 on paper.
    Then I deleted the #2 450 model and used the SD card to reload it. The problem remains so I deleted the model again and used the paper (not the SD card) to manually reset it. So was three times a charm? NOPE, the problem remains.

    It started raining today but I couldn't wait any more so I charged up a pack and reversed the aileron servo. The only other thing is to set the swash (aileron) from a +75 where it should be to -75.... I went out, in between the rain drops and did the throttle standardization. Then I powered it up again and took her up. This thing has some major B&@#s now!! Whoa!! tune it down a bit, LOL!

    I'll bet if a skilled pilot got his meat hooks on it, it could do some fancy maneuvers now. I said a skilled pilot...
    Well,,,, that's where we're at now.
    I have to reverse the aileron servo and set the swash at a -75 and she flies great.
    I can't figure out why this (self adjustment) took place... I would like to set it back and get it strait but if I can't I guess I'll just leave it like it is now and move on and fly.

    I like that governor action. My old ESC was just a basic unit. I know I need to learn more about the governor and can't wait to just go for it. The motor alone in quieter and I have more the twice the power, whew! Oh the locator beacon is a screamer with a bright red LED in it. I feel better about having one of these on board. Check it out, it's below the gyro, nice and loud!

    Oh well, I haven't been able send pictures for a while, another mystery Tony, ha!
    I got some cool pictures to send along, I got to figure out what the devil is going on, its probable me,, he he heee.....

    Ok folks, we're almost there!
    Any idea's of why the digital flip flop?
    Should I be concerned about this kind of event?
    Any tips on reversing the flip flop?

    Now I need to detune this thing before I get hurt HA!!
    Keep it coming; I love learning this stuff!
    Rster...
     
  18. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    what issue are you having posting pictures? You should just be able to click on Upload A File Or Photo next to the Post Reply button and upload the pics. I will look into it if that is not working for you though.

    As for reversing the aileron, if you are doing this on a CCPM model, it is best to do it in the swash menu where you reversed the pitch. Just take the aileron to a negative number as well. As for toning it down, DR/Expo should do the trick. I would start with 70% dual rate and +35% expo and see where that gets you and go from there.
     
  19. D.O.G.

    D.O.G. Well-Known Member Goblin 380 Supporter

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    Maybe his pictures are to big for the site. I remember Tony telling me and others about PhotoScape in order to shrink the pictures to fit in the site. :).
     
  20. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    well, I just raised the max_upload_size limit on the server from 2mb to 5mb. Most phones will not shoot anything over that, but some do.

    Here is the thread on photo upload issues.

    Image Upload Size Fixed
     
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