Misc. Spirit GeoLink Problem

[Heliman450]

Hi all,

I'm having a problem with installing a GeoLink module to my latest project (Ex V-R 880 rebuild).

I'm still waiting for a response from the Spirit Forum but if anybody has some experience in this, I'd appreciate the help.

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[RandyDSok]

It's sort of tough to guess what "problem" you are talking about unless you actually describe it.

 

[Heliman450]

Well Randy, my request is related to experience with installing a Spirit GeoLink. As this seemed a bit too much for you to grasp, I will assume that you don't have any experience of the module.

If someone is kind enough to come forward declaring some experience, I will gladly correspond further with the individual(s) detailing the problem. Still no word from the Spirit forum, I'm assuming that the delay is likely due to summer holidays within their team.

 

[RandyDSok]

I was trying to help get you some suggestions by having you describe what your problem is specifically... Instead you appear to assume everyone will know exactly the details... Good luck getting the help you need when you won't provide specifics.

 

[D.O.G.]

Gentlemen let's not ruin a good thing and just play nice

 

[RandyDSok]

Gentlemen let's not ruin a good thing and just play nice

I know that wasn't my intention ... While I didn't have an answer I also knew there wasn't enough info provided for them to get help as well...

 

[Heliman450]

I have been involved in the forum for many years as a member and never had any sarcasm entering my threads, so this is very disappointing. Many thanks to you D.O.G. for your input and let's try once again......

Unfortunately, Spirit appear to have failed to provide any information regarding the addition of their GeoLink module to an existing setup. Of course, even if it's a new installation, there needs to be a logical progression including some 'quirks' that are essential to include. I have trawled their web-based manuals as well as downloaded PDF's to no avail. I am awaiting their feedback and in the meantime trying other methods. Let's try and see if someone can ease my frustration seeing the model on my kitchen island

So the simplest way to describe the problem(s):

• The GeoLink access button is shown on the 'General' Tab but it didn't open until the unit was connected to the DSMX port on my SpiritPro (2 options - both tried)
• Once connected, the GeoLink was 'seen' but showed the Firmware version as v0.0.0. This prompted me to seek out something to 'Flash' into the module
• The status bar for loading the Firmware showed 1% momentarily and then I received a failure message. I came out of the process and tried once more with the same result
• I'm now receiving a warning of bad connection
• I tried to uncover any help from the 'written word', which resulted in a recommendation that Drivers/Firmware should be updated. I have done this and also my interface software on my laptop for good measure. The bad connection message still continues
• I'm currently rewriting the web-based text into real, logical English rather than what appears to be an online translation
• I tried taking the model out onto my terrace to seek satellites and now at least the module is showing power (Blue LED), which it didn't previously, only flashing momentarily. Unfortunately, I didn't do anything other than taking it outside to achieve this

I've decided to start from scratch using my own interpretation of the source texts. One recommendation is to use an analogue compass to calibrate the module for Magnetic North. I'm awaiting my purchase and will charge the auxiliary battery in readiness. My intention is to also go through a full calibration to test my work on this. The video link goes to a gentleman who doesn't actually carry out a successful calibration first time. I was too frustrated over the weekend to carry on to see if he achieved it.

Any feedback will be much appreciated as I intend to begin again later today (CET). Thanks in anticipation.

 

[RandyDSok]

I can give some input from the computer side of things... just not the actual device itself since I haven't worked with those... well, I do have a generic statement about GPS stuff and I'll cover it also but suspect you know this since you went outside already. I'm also not assuming any knowledge at all but not as a slight but to ensure nothing is left out of the discussion in case something isn't known.

Let's just start with that to get it out of the way... GPS signals often do not work or at least work well indoors. You can see examples of this with our smartphones we have these days... they will switch to network location tracking inside of buildings instead of using more accurate GPS signals. GPS signals use multiple signals from different satellites to time the differences between reception to triangulate the location from. The more signals that are received the more accurate the location... any delay in the reception of those signals can also cause inaccuracies.

Next... cables. In particular the USB cable you use and any cable you use to connect your SpiritPro with are always good to suspect first because cables are less reliable than other parts of the equation. You mentioned being able to intermittently "see" the General Tab... This would make me suspect a connection problem. With the number of funky USB cables I've seen... that is where I'd focus any suspicion of this type but it doesn't exclude any other cable connection either.

Because I do fix/repair computers for a living.. means I've also seen flaky USB ports as well. So eliminate any USB hub you have ( if any ) and plug direct into your computer. Also try other USB ports on the computer as additional checks.

You mentioned having updated drivers. I'm also going to mention that computer manufacturers often don't keep up with their drivers as I feel they should. If your system uses an AMD or Intel chipset... go to their websites and download the chipset drivers directly from AMD or Intel. Both companies have improved their drivers... but AMD has had more issues in the past as a rule.

BIOS updates for your computer could also have updates that can improve USB reliability. Keeping your BIOS updated also helps with any security issues that may have been found.

That covers about anything computer wise that can be relatively easily addressed. As a diagnostic tech, my next step would be to test using another computer, that isn't always an available option for everyone but worth a mention of taking it to the last possible cause that isn't the SpiritPro itself causing an issue... which I can't address.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Randy, many thanks for your input. I'm sure that the vast majority of us don't have the discipline to keep everything updated (me included). Currently, I have two USB cables to connect to my SpiritPro 'SYS' port. Both have proved fine when used only for the gyro, although I have swapped them around on occasions if my connection warning has come through. My laptop is normally not updated routinely as it lives away from home, so when it does return, I have to ensure that all updates take place before use. Point taken there and I will always bring it home from the hobby room for updating . Apart from this, I'm pretty confident with its age/capabilities to do the job. Connecting it to my main PC would make it very difficult as the heli is just too big to fit on my desk. Just the need to align its nose to Magnetic North at some point is a little challenging even on a more than 2 metres long kitchen island!

With relationship to drivers, my reference is to the Spirit drivers, not the computer's. If you consider it necessary, I will see about updating the laptop's drivers. I'm afraid that I don't have any really intimate knowledge of what's inside any of the modern 'Gizmos'.

I have the basis of a 'plan' to go forwards, that's the important thing. Once again thanks for your input.

 

[RandyDSok]

I have no reason to suspect your computer or your USB cables actually. I was simply not ignoring them since those are always a possibility until proven otherwise. Some logical thinking can prove ( mostly prove ) those are fine in that when connecting other devices, the connections are not intermittent like you were saying with the General Tab sometimes showing and sometimes not showing. If it's a connection issue... then that leaves the connection into the DSMX port on the SpiritPro as the next logical suspect connection and not the USB cable going to the receiver/satellite. I haven't actually seen many issues with that type of connection but that doesn't rule it out and when diagnosing stuff... it is a matter of ruling out the possibility of something causing an issue and leaving assumptions to the side.

After saying leaving out assumptions is bad... lets do that for discussion sake so we could move to the next step. Lets say that cable is also good ( even if it's not completely tested at this point ). That then only leaves a defective SpiritPro as the culprit since only internal connections on that unit are the only remaining possible causes IF the problem isn't their software or drivers. If this is so, then you do need to contact the company and get a RMA for the device sooner than later since the return window is often small if getting it from a reseller... and it's a slow process if going to the manufacturer .

Once you are sure about the cable going to the SpiritPro... then I think you've done all you can do and are at the step of getting a replacement. The company you contact will likely tell you to do something you've already told them that you have done/tested ( they seldom fully read an email or report with very few exceptions )... just reply back that you tested it as ok as you had previously mentioned.

I'll back up a little bit now... To the SpiritPro drivers/software side because I left that out... it isn't something I've used so I skipped it. You have no real way to address or diagnose these directly but you may have indications that they are possible culprits by looking through the existing support threads on the company forums for the device. If none exist ( forums for the device or threads with similar problems mentioned ), then you are again at the mercy of their support staff and until told differently... and must make assumptions it isn't the cause. I hate making assumptions but sometimes we have no choice.

As for your computers drivers and BIOS... I'm prejudiced here because that is in part of my job description. I just know keeping them up to date can make a computer more reliable for the reasons I mentioned. I don't check mine constantly, the last time I did it on my home PC was last year until just recently ( last week I did update ). I think of it sort of like servicing your car/truck. My video drivers are checked all the time by my GPU driver software and I update it every time it lists one... the rest of my system as a whole is usually done about yearly and the BIOS less often but while I'm doing my drivers I tend to include it out of convenience since that is when I set time aside for those things.

 

[Heliman450]

So the saga continues....

I now have a fully charged auxiliary battery ready to use. I doubt this had much to do with it as there was still a good voltage coming from it. Belt and braces as they say.

I did a quick check before sitting down for my evening meal and went to the same stage again. The unstable connection message comes on the GeoLink display, which is accessed via the General Tab.

My laptop drivers were last updated 7th January 2022 according to the report I checked (Intel Software Component 1.63.1155.1). Doesn't mean a thing to me but maybe does for you.

If it does prove to be the DSMX ports that are faulty there will be no refund as the gyro is well out of any guarantee but I have no reason to suspect its performance, only this issue getting the GeoLink online. If I can't get it to work on the big heli then I might try it on one of my others that both use SpiritPro gyros.

I'm not done yet and will keep updating the thread as time rolls on.

 

[RandyDSok]

That device is one component of the drivers but it is not what you are looking for per se. This page has a utility that can find the updated drivers for your Intel based hardware Intel® Driver & Support Assistant

If the other SpiritPro gyros are the same make/model ... and they also work in this aircraft, that would also be a step to say if the original problem one is faulty or not. It's sort of a way to work backwards for the answer by using a known good device.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Randy, great feedback and I'm hoping to continue starting with my Tx. Spirit recommend using a separate channel for the GeoLink, it's not essential but seems to make good sense to me. This will be the case regardless of which model receives the module. All three function fine and I have no reason to suspect them. Each model will need a mount for the module. I will get one first for the 550, this is the oldest model and could be ready for retirement soon in any case.

When in use, Spirit recommend using the 'Coaxial' option from the 'Stabi' functions. I very rarely use the 'Stabi' function and have never considered engaging 'Coaxial'. This will give me a totally different flying experience but may be an option for the future when I cross the 'Three Score Years Plus Ten' life event soon to be upon me

Unfortunately, I don't have full days to work at this so 'she who must be obeyed' will be confronted with he heli dominating the kitchen for a little while longer. I don't expect any kick-back.

 

[Heliman450]

Thanks for the feedback and prompters Randy, I've decided to make this into a 'mini-project' rather than what I thought was going to be a straightforward 'plug-and-play' exercise. I'm taking the heli back to the hobby room but must carry it upstairs as the lift is having a major overhaul and not available until early September according to schedule.

There is also a bit of thinking to do about my next phase in my hobby. It could be that I buy another Tx. to account for the additional channels that I'm likely to need going forward. I could buy more for my DC-14 but maybe there's a better option (prettier etc.) going for a 16-Channel device.

The Scope of Work (SoW) looks a bit like this:

• Update laptop with all the latest stuff (and keep it updated)
• Activate channel 8 in Jeti DC-14
• Arrange worktable to allow the flexibility I need to move the heli around (align to Magnetic North etc. when the time comes)
• Resolve the challenges of connecting and activating the GeoLink - Still no response from Spirit Support. My thread has been viewed 24 times since I published it 13th August, but nobody has offered any input

 

[Heliman450]

That device is one component of the drivers but it is not what you are looking for per se. This page has a utility that can find the updated drivers for your Intel based hardware Intel® Driver & Support Assistant

If the other SpiritPro gyros are the same make/model ... and they also work in this aircraft, that would also be a step to say if the original problem one is faulty or not. It's sort of a way to work backwards for the answer by using a known good device.

Hi Randy, thanks for the link. All up to date and setup for routine updates.

 

[RandyDSok]

Hi Randy, thanks for the link. All up to date and setup for routine updates.

You're welcome.... just don't over do the driver update schedule either... just saying. Most new driver updates tend to taper off around the 2-3 year old mark from the initial release of a device. This is normal as companies start focusing more on their newer stuff. Video and chipsets do have a longer cadence and tend to have updates out to the 5-ish year mark or so. It also helps that Microsoft will often include newer drivers over time although they often lag quite a bit vs the actual manufacturers. As I mentioned for the reasons I stated and it's what I do for a living so part of my normal work flow... I do tend to check my chipset drivers about yearly unless there is another reason I've heard to check sooner. I don't count the video driver's built in checks as something I'm doing... but if it didn't happen, I'd probably also check it yearly as well. To few checks may be bad for your hardware ( performance, stability or security wise ) but too many is a drag on you personally, so keep it real I guess is a good way to say that.

However, I do a Windows update check often... at least every couple of weeks if not sooner. Mostly I do this so the performance drop you see from a background update, doesn't get in the way of my using my computers... secondarily it's because it's usually just good practice for much the same reasons I check for hardware driver updates only the security reasons are more pressing here.

On the forum post views things... just remember that if others are interested in a subject and come back to check on if an update has been posted... their subsequent revisits also count as a view. Of course on larger forums, just the number of users will also add to the count and there are more that are passive in their interactions... ie they read but seldom post anything.

As for RC radio updates... my biggest issue is the... "I want .... " you fill in your own blank or blanks... LMAO

 

[Heliman450]

OK, will do!

 

[Heliman450]

Latest update:

• Analogue compass delivered and indicating that I need to turn my worktable 90 degrees to allow alignment to Magnetic North
• Laptop up to date as per Randy's guidance and awaiting my appearance in my workshop
• Prepare for a test of cable connection using my 700X SpiritPro as the only alternative not using Ch.8 of my Jeti DC-14
• Research how to switch through the various functions of the GeoLink when in use - Online manual shows multi-functions selectable from within the software by ticking boxes - Will I need to programme multi-switches? Currently, I don't switch stuff in flight apart from Flight Modes and I land before changing settings in the SpiritPro via my interface in the Tx. All feedback here appreciated on using multiple switches e.g. why have 24 Channels?

 

[Heliman450]

Yet another update:

• Cobbled together a test-rig to be able to check the GeoLink cables (photo)
• Reinforced the cable where it plugs into the SpriritPro (very difficult task! Photo)
• First-try failure using the 'Primary Port' (Photo)
• Established contact using the 'Secondary Port' - It's now asking for update but can't find an option for v1 - Trawling Internet to find solution - Discovered some old threads saying that a .4dg file is needed on my laptop - Downloaded and awaiting info. about where it should be filed (presumably in a Spirit folder somewhere?) - Hey! I got a response from support so filed it accordingly

 

[D.O.G.]

I don't have Spirit Geolink but I'm sure am learning something new from you Phil and Randy's information sharing back and forth