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Spektrum DX6 Binding Problem

Discussion in 'Transmitters & Receivers' started by Heliman450, Aug 20, 2016.

< Dx6, 8 Or10? | Turnigy9x V2 Low Battery Indicated When It's Not Low >
  1. Smoggie

    Smoggie Well-Known Member

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    Tony, I've been following Phil's problems with this issue.
    He's tried at least two AR7200BX units (both of which bind just fine to the JR Tx), and all AR7200BX FBL/receivers are DSMX. So they 'should' bind fine to the new DX6.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
  2. Heliman450

    Heliman450 I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter

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    Hi guys! Another day, another gyro :biggrin1: ............... I have a plan! I got to thinking about what is the next step and came to the conclusion that the transmitters should go to the local model shop for them to check them out (costs money).

    What will they do? Probably just pick up a brand new receiver and check the two transmitters against it using all their experience of binding trillions of models during their lifetime. Knowing Swiss people as I do, they've probably invested thousands of Swiss Francs in a testing rig to be able to see that there's no signal coming from the Tx. :lmao: before sending them off to Spektrum to have the faulty modules changed out. So what's my next step?

    Accept that for now that I've failed to find a fancy trick or that I'm doing something very stupid and concentrate on delivering a functioning heli to my friend so that we can do some serious training. In the meantime?

    I will build a testing rig with different (new) receivers to enable a standard procedure to be carried out picking up on all the tips and tricks together with the standard manufacturer's procedure for binding. What does this look like?

    The test rig need not be anything fancy, just a board with a separate power supply with some receivers nailed to it. The procedure?

    Standard wording lifted from the instructions plus.....

    1. Make sure that the transmitter is at least 6 feet (2m) away from the receiver
    2. Be prepared to repeat the binding procedure more than once as it doesn't always happen first time
    3. Have a clear path to the receiver i.e. don't carry out the procedure with anything blocking the signal 'path' to the receiver such as walls or heavy metal objects such as drilling machines in a workshop
    4. If the binding process fails multiple times check the following (after drinking something strong to calm your fraying nerves)
    5. Check the battery voltage of the transmitter and re-charge if low (better to start with fully charged batteries anyway)
    6. Check the battery voltage of the power supply to the receiver (this may require a custom made adapter to connect the voltage meter to the take-off point)
    7. Make sure that you aren't trying to do the binding process with a positive throttle position as this will prevent the binding process (depending upon the transmitter you may get a warning of this anyway)
    8. Try other seemingly illogical things
    8a. Check the binding process with and without a satellite receiver
    8b. Drop the throttle trim to its lowest setting in the transmitter whilst doing the binding
    8c. Check the binding process using another compatible transmitter
    8d. Check the binding process against a new or functioning receiver other than the one in the current (failing) binding process
    8e. Take the model to your local model shop and pay them to sort it for you or always pay them to build/repair your models and have no fun trying yourself

    I think the above covers just about everything I've picked up but I may have missed something so please add to the list if I have.

    Bye for now!
     
  3. Smoggie

    Smoggie Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a plan but personally I would get too concerned about the charge state of batteries. As long as the Rx is powering on with the LED flashing and the Tx voltage alarm isn't sounding then it should bind. There is a natural assumption that the Tx will 'work better' with a fully charged battery than with a half charged one; this is false... As long as it has enough voltage to operate then it operates at 100% capacity, more voltage does not mean more signal strength.

    Also the throttle position (while being worth trying if nothing else works) isn't something that should in theory prevent binding and is not an issue I've ever experienced. The advice to close the throttle when binding is for safety reasons because the receiver stores the control positions at the point of binding and uses them as failsafe, in the event of signal loss it reverts to the bind positions. So if you bind with an open throttle and you make the mistake of turning off the Tx before the Rx then the receiver will go to failsafe of open throttle... which is very bad!
    If moving the trim down does make the bind work I'd really like to know because it's a new one on me and it would be good to have it confirmed one way or the other.

    The only factor that differentiates your JR Tx from your two DX6 Spektrums is that the JR is DSM2 protocol and the DX6 are (if 2015 or newer) DSMX only. The AR7200BX 'should' connect to either DSM2 or DSMX so this shouldn't be the issue. It's an interesting variable but I really cant see how this could explain the problem.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
  4. Heliman450

    Heliman450 I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter

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    Hi Steve! As always thanks for the contribution. I've bound models before but not as many as most and not experienced any problem. Of course it's always possible to forget something or be distracted. My purpose here is to put together a list of all the ideas as to why it might be happening (however unlikely the cause) together with all the tips and tricks for getting round a problem such as I've just experienced. As for the battery status, that was the main item I could pick up from the DX6 instructions' 'Trouble-shooting' guide.

    One of the DX6's was already bound to the AR7200BX (by myself) and had worked without problem until now. I was thinking that my friend can't fly helis (or anything yet for that matter) but maybe he can and he's just been suffering due to malfunctioning transmitters. Only time will tell.

    By the way, my T-Rex 550 parts from 'sunny' Aberdeen have been three days in the same location. I suspect it's the Swiss customs discouraging locals from buying outside the country.

    Cheers!
     
  5. Admiral

    Admiral Well-Known Member

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    Hi Phil, I have another thought, try to bind the Rx to an older Spektrum Tx capable of DSM2 & DSMX to see which protocol it binds too, to check that your Rx is not faulty and will only bind to DSM2.
    Other than that I think you have covered everything.
     
  6. Heliman450

    Heliman450 I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter

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    Hi Admiral (Keith), long time no hear! I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying. My understanding (to coin a phrase :biggrin1:) is that my JR ProPo DSX9 bought in Singapore in 2009 does support both DSM2 and DSMX. How do I know which of the two is actually achieving the bind?

    I don't know (yet) how old the DX6's are. Maybe the serial numbers will mean something to one of the more informed members of the Forum. My assumption is that as they were most likely bought here in Switzerland, they won't be capable of DSM2. My feeling is that they are quite old but maybe I'm wrong on that.

    Finally, there must be a device available that can detect (read) what the unique ID of a receiver is and via this kind of clever stuff detect if the transmitter is actually doing anything at all. Over to the electronic wizards on that one.

    Bye now, off to bed to dream about binding protocols :chickendance::puke:
     
  7. Smoggie

    Smoggie Well-Known Member

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    The DSX9 is DSM2 only. DSMX was first introduced in 2011. This is the intro video:
    DSMX - YouTube
    Fortunately all DSMX receivers are DSM2 backward compatible so your DSX9 will still work with all current receivers.

    Spektrum transmitters show on the screen what mode they are operating in, also in the system setup you can manually select between DSMX or DSM2 in transmitters that support both.

    Another way to check if the receiver is bound in DSMX or DSM2 mode is to power up the Tx and Rx and let them connect normally. Now power cycle the receiver only, leaving the Tx turned on. The receiver will connect again and work normally but if working in DSM2 mode the LED will now be flashing (a false brownout indication). If it's in DSMX mode the LED will be solid.

    happy dreams!
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
  8. Heliman450

    Heliman450 I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter

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    Hi Steve, as my transmitter is a JR ProPo DSX9, not a Spektrum, it looks like they were following JR. Of one thing I'm absolutely certain of, I bought mine in Singapore in 2009 as an early birthday present. Maybe mine's an 'advanced' Chinese clone made in Japan :lmao:

    I want one of those gizmos he's got plugged into the laptop maybe then I could see if the two Spektrum DX6's are actually working.

    Bye for now!
     
  9. Smoggie

    Smoggie Well-Known Member

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    Phil,

    Yes, I know that it's a JR.

    JR and Spektrum are all brands of the Horizon Hobby company. When JR adopted 2.4GHz they simply used Spektrum's already proven DSM/DSM2 technology, so both JR and Spektrum used the exact same DSM/DSM2 protocol until 2011. In 2011 HH introduced DSMX technology to it's Spektrum brand transmitters. At that point HH decided to differentiate the JR brand by giving JR it's own 2.4GHz protocol, which they called DMSS.

    For 100% certain no brand of transmitter had DSMX before it was introduced on Spektrum transmitters in 2011. I'm also pretty sure that JR never had DSMX at any point because they went down the DMSS route instead.

    Here's an extract from a product listing for the DSX9:
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
  10. Heliman450

    Heliman450 I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter

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    Hi Steve, I'll leave the history lessons with you.
     
  11. Smoggie

    Smoggie Well-Known Member

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    Not so much a history lesson, I was just trying to explain where DSMX came from and why JR transmitters use something different and so dont support DSMX.
     
  12. Heliman450

    Heliman450 I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter

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    Hi Steve, most of this stuff in our hobby is history as far as I'm concerned. Especially when guys such as you have built up such a wealth of knowledge over the years by trawling the forums, websites etc. where all the details lurk. I checked out the launch date of the JR DSX9 and came across a forum where the guys were discussing its delayed launch (in the U.S.A.) in March of 2008, which ties in with my buying one in 2009. A bit too much surfing stuff for me to track down the info., I think.

    I'll have a look at my JR instruction manual and swot up on some the technical details to see if it means anything. One good piece I picked up in the last few threads is how to identify stuff in the Spektrum transmitters. I don't think I saw a similar thing in my DSX9 Tx.

    Tomorrow, I plan to progress the Blade using my DSX9 as the 'new' Tx. Fingers crossed and wish me luck?

    Bye now!
     
  13. Smoggie

    Smoggie Well-Known Member

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    The DSX9 has a reputation as a great Tx (I've not used one personally). i'm sure it will work perfectly with the Blade.

    It will be interesting to find out what the issue was with the two DX6 transmitters.
     
  14. Smoggie

    Smoggie Well-Known Member

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    Phil,

    With all these binding problems with those DX6 transmitters you made me nervous. As you know I have a 'new in box' DX6 that I'm selling on eBay. It's never been bound to an Rx and after your experience I got a bit worried that maybe it also wouldn't bind. So i pulled out a spare receiver and tried....

    Happily it bound right away, no issues at all. So at least some DX6 transmitters work!
     
  15. Heliman450

    Heliman450 I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter

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    Hi all, latest update on this problem..................

    I've fixed up to meet my farmer friend to test his transmitters using his other models. I ran out of test material myself so I'm very interested to see the condition of his other models.

    Let you know how it goes.

    Bye now!
     
  16. Heliman450

    Heliman450 I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter

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    Hi all! OK, here goes...............

    One of the transmitters doesn't work and the other has been checked on a little test rig using another Rx. and the bind was successful. Now I can return to the challenge of getting it to do the job on the models. What was different?

    1. I found out that number 1 (the one he was using when it crashed) doesn't show the orange bars constantly and this means that the internal module is shot. I didn't know that and never picked it up in the instructions or here either, so I need to re-read them to see if there's any mention of it. There definitely wasn't anything in the trouble-shooting guide. This Tx. will be sent off for fixing.

    2. With number 2, I asked him what he did differently to get a successful bind and why it seemed reluctant to bind with about 8 different receivers during my trials. He tells me it can happen like that and try to do it from different angles such as from below the model and also take it outside to make sure that such things as Wi-fi networks can't influence it. This could be the reason that my own JR ProPo sometimes took multiple attempts to bind with it. He also recommended doing an update of the firmware.

    My workshop is in a house with residential apartments, too. This could make interference from Wi-fi systems a candidate in my case. I'll try again to go through a binding process standing on one leg, hanging from the ceiling etc. etc. until I'm successful! :chickendance:
     
  17. D.O.G.

    D.O.G. I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter Goblin 380 Supporter

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    Interesting Phil. It doesn't make sense. I have 8 surveillance cameras, Wii "WIFI" and XBox1, Nook "WIFI", Smartphone "WIFI", WIFI extender and a wireless intercom system all in the house that's CBS, "Concrete Block Structure". I have no problem with binding. That's why it seems strange to me. I wish you luck and hopefully it all will work out for you.
     
  18. Smoggie

    Smoggie Well-Known Member

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    Yep, you heard it first in post #2 in this thread:friendly_wink:

    99 times out of 100 it works fine in the home but occasionally the background WiFi noise can cause issues.
     
  19. Heliman450

    Heliman450 I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter

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    I've got no idea if this is the reason for my binding problems. I'm sure that if any electronics wiz-kids are reading this they could offer up an explanation why (or why not) it interferes with the binding process. As a layman, I was under the impression that the whole idea of 2.4GHz systems was to have an interference-free flying experience. All I know is that at one point I nearly tore out the few remaining hairs on my head :banghead:

    Of course, now I'm just left with repeating the process all over again but with the knowledge that the Tx. in my hands does bind 'coz I saw it :biglaugh:

    Let you know how it turns out.
     
  20. Heliman450

    Heliman450 I Support Rc-Help! Rc-Help Supporter

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    Latest news.............

    The DX6 is registered with Spektrum and I've got all the latest updates downloaded ready. Just need to dig out a SD Card to transfer the files over. Fingers crossed!
     
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