Piro Tuning (Spirit Pro)

[Heliman450]

Hi all, here's the latest update of my hover practise videos looking for feedback on tuning up my Spirit Pro to improve the pirouettes. Here goes.....................

[video=youtube_share;xpTCqyZyozA]https://youtu.be/xpTCqyZyozA[/video]


All feedback welcome

 

[Smoggie]

Hi Phil,

I had similar trouble trying to do piros in the early days and I still dont really know if it was my dumb thumbs, or not having the heli setup properly, or a bit of both.

In this case with the Spirit Pro setup there is very little that could be wrong because there is no specific setting to control the axiality of the piroette. The only setup issues i can think of are:

1. Piro Compensation: On V2.0 software and later this is set automatically and will be correct as long as you have the mounting orientation of the Spirit set correctly in the software, so nothing to adjust here providing mounting orientation is correct.
2. Swash not level: I get the impression that you are pretty meticulous on setup so unlikely to be an out of level swash but worth double checking if you have any doubt.
3. CoG miles out: easy thing to check.

If those things check out then I think that really it's gotta be down to 'user error'.. so just a matter of practice and compensating as required.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Steve, thanks for the prompt feedback (are you looking in 24/7?). I'm sure all's fine mechanically, so just the Tx. and gyro settings. I already altered the Tx. along the lines you suggested ready for my next session.

I'm convinced that the Spirit Pro settings must relate to Tx. settings (possibly no change to the defaults) so it makes it a bit difficult if one isn't confident enough to use full ranges. For example, for the 'Rudder Rotation Rate' they suggest 8 for a beginner and 9-11 for more experienced pilots who presumably have no problem using higher dual rates. There must be room for some variation in the settings in both Tx. and gyro.

Bye for now!

 

[Heliman450]

Hi all! Today, I managed to get two sessions at the field and it's looking like I can get there again tomorrow.

I increased the range of the pitch curve and increased the dual rates, too. I took it nice and easy but the heli feels much better and wasn't trying to break away on its own only needing a small correction after left/right stick inputs.

Tomorrow, I intend to give it a bit more stick work and hopefully have some more video to publish.

Bye for now!

 

[trainrider06]

Hi Phil glad things are going good for ya! Like Steve said in the newer software they Piro comp is figured by the spirit, myself I have had issues with my stupid fingers getting in the way....

 

[Heliman450]

Hi again! Well the latest update isn't good news but at least not a disaster

I managed to get out to the field first thing (07:00 is the earliest under the rules). Long story short, I misjudged the left stick change in the hover to bring left side to me and went too low allowing a hard tail fin strike and............ you guessed it, the tail rotor clipped it as it bent and stripped two teeth out of the rear umbrella gear

Fortunately, I was quick enough to switch off the motor so it looks like the damage is confined to the tail, however, it appears that the umbrella gear isn't available as a separate part so I decided to go for the tail conversion that Steve mentioned so the cost was more than just the tail assembly parts. No worries, I got permission from she who must be obeyed and bought two more 6S batteries making my total of four capable of practise sessions of around 40 mins in the air. The cost of the batteries far outweighed the parts, so I didn't feel too bad and now have two pairs of 6S batteries if I should ever progress to needing them as a pair. Always something positive

Bye for now!

 

[Smoggie]

Phil,

Too late now but the gears are available as a separate parts. The tail bevel gears are Align part #H60G003XXT and the front ones are #H60G002XXT.
In fact I'm sure I have some in my spares box. Give the front umbrella gears a close inspection plus the gear on the bottom of the counter shaft that drives the TT.. these are all vulnerable to losing teeth in a tail blade strike, it's easy done.

 

[Heliman450]

Phil,

Too late now but the gears are available as a separate parts. The tail bevel gears are Align part #H60G003XXT and the front ones are #H60G002XXT.
In fact I'm sure I have some in my spares box. Give the front umbrella gears a close inspection plus the gear on the bottom of the counter shaft that drives the TT.. these are all vulnerable to losing teeth in a tail blade strike, it's easy done.

Hi Steve, no problem there. I'm building up my experience with a heli, which I don't expect to become a beloved member of my family. When I started in the hobby I bought a whole load of bits for my heli from Singapore mainly because they were cheap as chips and I was going through them like a dose of salts! I still have a whole load just taking up space and as you can imagine, I need something that's not in the spares box if I wanted to try and fix it now. My policy now is only buy as and when what I need to keep the current heli in the air or until I get to about 60% of the cost of the original heli. Let's see how that policy goes.............

Cheers!

 

[Smoggie]

Phil, I'm with you on buying only what you need right now. Buying spares up front is a mug's game IMHO. Unless you virtually have a spare airframe you hardly ever have all the parts you need so you almost invariably end up having to place a top-up order anyway. My policy is to let the dealer hold the spares stock rather than me!

Almost of the 'just in case' spares i have bought still sit in their packets years later gathering dust, that's how i have the spare bevel gears!

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Steve, I once considered buying two identical helis, but now that I'm playing in the big boys league, I can't see any sense in that either. The technology moves so fast that something you buy as latest version now will be superseded by something better in about 6 months anyway. Some of the best bargains come from dealers trying to dispose of old stock and when you don't know enough about the products you can end up with a pup. I suspect to a certain extent that's the case with me right now, the dealer doesn't want to find the exact part for me. I don't mind too much as long as they don't end up trying to take liberties with me. They are moving full steam towards the RC-Cars rather than the bigger helis anyway. I suppose there are always new customers when you cater for the kids rather than the 'well-off' old farts like me.

I'll keep you updated on progress. I think I'll take the opportunity of a good strip down, check everything out and fit my new ESC that's just sitting on my bench at the moment.

Bye now!

 

[Smoggie]

The bigger UK dealers such as Fast-lad, Align-Trex.co.uk and Midlands Helis should all have those parts in and i think they do shipping within Europe. If it is keeping you grounded and you can find the parts just let me know and i'll check my box of spares, I'm 90% sure i have a set though they may be the older spec white plastic rather than the new black ones (they work the same as far as i can tell).

 

[Heliman450]

The bigger UK dealers such as Fast-lad, Align-Trex.co.uk and Midlands Helis should all have those parts in and i think they do shipping within Europe. If it is keeping you grounded and you can find the parts just let me know and i'll check my box of spares, I'm 90% sure i have a set though they may be the older spec white plastic rather than the new black ones (they work the same as far as i can tell).

Hi Steve, nice of you to think of me but it's always down to the shipping/import costs. I once paid almost as much again for some bits to get them from Belgium for my Beam E4. Overall, it's just not worth it when you can walk to the dealer and buy over the counter. My T-Rex has white gear train parts and the dealer told me that they won't match up with black, hence me going for the conversion on the tail. I'll have a black tail end and a white front end if you'll pardon my French as the saying goes LoL!

If we ever get to meet up, I'll gladly take them off your hands for a reasonable sum or a few pints if you prefer.

 

[Smoggie]

Your dealer is wrong, the black fit and work perfectly fine, they are 100% identical apart from the colour/grade of plastic. That's why the white gears are no longer available, the black ones supercede them. My Trex 600 Pro originally had the exact same white gears (the 550 and 600 use the same tail) and i changed to the black because the grade of plastic is supposed to be stronger, they are a straight drop in replacement.

I hope your dealer hasn't talked you into changing the whole tail case? There would be no point in that, the case itself hasn't changed. If it were me I'd get a refund rather than waste good money on bits you dont need.

 

[Heliman450]

Your dealer is wrong, the black fit and work perfectly fine, they are 100% identical apart from the colour/grade of plastic. That's why the white gears are no longer available, the black ones supercede them. My Trex 600 Pro originally had the exact same white gears (the 550 and 600 use the same tail) and i changed to the black because the grade of plastic is supposed to be stronger, they are a straight drop in replacement.

I hope your dealer hasn't talked you into changing the whole tail case? There would be no point in that, the case itself hasn't changed. If it were me I'd get a refund rather than waste good money on bits you dont need.

Hi Steve, sorry but I must defend my dealer on this one. He showed me the main tail drive gear and despite having the same 131 teeth, the black gear had a slightly smaller diameter than the white so wouldn't reach across and mesh with the front (white) drive gears. So not that they don't fit the heli, it's more that you probably won't get a match of black to white running in mesh together. It makes sense to change the two at the same time as for example, my heli must be at least 5 years old now and the plastic bits always suffer a bit of degradation over time and become less flexible (just like people I suppose ).

Bye now!

 

[Smoggie]

Phil,

I thought that we were talking about the tail bevel gears, not the auto rotation gears or front TT drive gears?


I'll try to tell the whole story....

• All the tail bevel gears are dimensionally the same and directly interchangeable black or white, you could even use one black and one white if you wanted. Only black gears are available now. Align part #H60G003XXT

At the front it's a bit more complex:

Align have two different tail drive ratios fitted to different versions of the 550e:

• Option 1 (4.5:1 drive ratio, as fitted to earlier 550e V1 and V2): 180t M06 auto gear which has to be used with the 40t M06 front TT gear set. These were originally white but have been replaced by black gears which are directly compatible. Align part # H60020AAT for auto gear and H6NG001XXT for the front TT drive gear set.
• Option 2 (3.85:1 drive ratio, as fitted to later 'pro' versions of 550e): 131t M08 auto gear which has to be used with the 34t M08 front TT gear set. These were also originally white but have been replaced by black gears which are directly compatible. Align part # H60198QAT for auto gear and H60G002XXT for the front TT drive gear set.

The earlier type (option 1) gives a faster tail RPM and better suited to lower or moderate headspeed, option 2 is better for very high RPM ( for 3D nutters). It is possible to retrofit either drive option to any version of the 550e providing you replace both auto gear and front TT gears as a set.

It sounds like your dealer was trying to match option 1 and option 2 parts, which are dimensionally different and so cant be mixed. The colour is not the issue, it's the number of teeth and the module (or 'M') number that determines if they fit. Both option 1 and option 2 were originally made in white plastic then replaced by black. For years I ran a white auto gear with a black front TT gear, no problems at all because they were both 'option 2' components. For both drive options only black is available now.


Trust me on this, my 600 uses all the same parts and the tail drive gear options is something that causes confusion again and again. I hope the above all makes sense.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Steve, that's great feedback. I used the E-Mail notification of your details for Options 1&2 when I spoke with the dealer this afternoon. I need to renew both front and back bevel gears as there is also damage there, too as you suggested earlier. I wanted to make sure I got a matching set of everything right through (it will be all black afterwards). I'm expecting delivery on Saturday.

Sorry if I didn't make clear enough that I was referring to the auto-rotation gear diameter, it was just what he had on the shelf at the time and probably didn't want to explain the history of T-Rex parts to me. He also showed me a website where all the part numbers and various combinations were shown very comprehensively. I forgot to get the name from him. Where did you pick up all your detailed knowledge on the T-Rex? Of course. I'd much appreciate to know how/where so that I can follow up on my own in future and help others, too. The assembly manuals don't carry such detailed part number info as others I've seen like Blade. They even list them in different languages as you probably know. It's been a great help to me being able to talk to others here who can't speak English.

 

[Smoggie]

Phil,

The 600 Pro is really the only Trex heli that I know inside out due to doing various modifications and upgrades to my own 600 Pro. The 550 shares many parts with the 600 so a lot of what I learned on the 600 transferred right over.

I think your 550e is the earlier version which will have whaty i refered to as 'option 1' gearing as standard. That would be the best gearing for your purposes as it gives good RPM on the tail without the need to run crazy high headspeed.

 

[Heliman450]

Phil,

The 600 Pro is really the only Trex heli that I know inside out due to doing various modifications and upgrades to my own 600 Pro. The 550 shares many parts with the 600 so a lot of what I learned on the 600 transferred right over.

I think your 550e is the earlier version which will have whaty i refered to as 'option 1' gearing as standard. That would be the best gearing for your purposes as it gives good RPM on the tail without the need to run crazy high headspeed.

Hi Steve, I'm back after a short period during which I've stripped/rebuilt the tail using the parts I had ordered for the replacement (option 2 as you described). I've also fitted the Hobbywings 100A ESC together with the MUI 75 sensor and all's looking good. I did a test hover this morning after completely reviewing the Spirit Pro settings. Good news is that it works, bad news is that after reducing to only the main battery, the heli is now very tail heavy and as there is only 7 mm of clearance between terrafirma and the tail fin, I'm wary of another tail rotor strike as there's almost no room for error now.

As a first try, I'm intending to carry the 2 cell LiPo just as ballast forwards of the main rotor shaft. Any other longer term solutions much appreciated.

When I'm feeling a bit more confident with the mechanical side of things I'll share the new settings from the Spirit Pro.

Bye now!

 

[Smoggie]

Did you fit the longer 600 boom or the slightly shorter 550 version? The longer boom I think does tend to make the 550 tail heavy. Other than moving the battery and everything else that can be moved as far forward as possible there isn't much you can do about the CG without adding weight. The 2s Lipo as ballast is as good a fix as any or you could get something like an Optipower Ultra-guard which would add some nose weight and also also provide a useful battery backup function.

On the 600 pro one trick is to fit the 700e Pro rear landing gear legs which are slightly longer but the same width so give the heli a slightly nose down stance which lift the tail up and keeps it clear of the dirt. I used this trick on my 600 but i'm not sure if it works on the 550.

 

[Smoggie]

Here's a link to the Ultra-guard if you did decide to try one, they are basically a battery backup that takes over supply of power to the receiver and servos in the event that the BEC fails: http://www.optipower.co.uk/Catalogue/ProductDetails.aspx?id=427

They are only about 40g so might actually not be quite heavy enough for your purpose?