Micro New problems with 130x.

[xokia]

So I took it out today and tried to put it through its paces. I dont think I have fully resolved my problem. The tail is now much more solid but I think my motor is on its way out. At 100% throttle if I really start linking multiple flips together I can hear it bog down. I dont recall it ever doing that before. I lost the tail a couple times today. I'm wondering if the bad bearings put to much load on the stock motor?

I wont be sticking the stock motor back in if I can find a better replacement.

 

[coolgabsi]

Well brushless motors don't die that fast...



Have you subtrimmed the 130x pitch for zero pitch?? If not you have way too much pitch one way and no matter what motor you put in it, you throw too much pitch on it, it's gonna bog.. There's only so much to these motors lol

Next thing : collective management.. If you are using a lot of left stick in multiple flips , then that's bad collective management .. You can bog a 700 motor with that too.. Which then will cause a lot if blade flapping on those soft blades and loss of tail hold and tail wag..

Cyclic is your friend.. Use that more than the collective stick .. Try to do a flip by moving the throttle stick as less as you can

Another thing..

What blades? Stock blades are soft and flap too much under load and this causing vibrations and Abd causing tail wag.


Now if you definitely want to get a bigger motor (better) try spin 8000 or hp08 ..

I use hp08 as you know and I love it

Just so you know I can bog these motors too if I don't manage my collective

Mcpx and 130 and all are very good birds to learn collective management my brushed mcpx trained me well.. Hear for a bog and try to minimize it by goin down on collective pitch and compensating ny cyclic


Please don't think that I am trying to say you don't know this and you don't do it

Just making sure I put this info out. : just in case

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[xokia]

Yea I understand all this. I'm basing my opinion on how it use to fly and how the motor used to sound. I use next to no collective on a flip. I usually ad a little positive pitch to get the momentum going forward then the rest is done at mid stick. Then just a little negative to bounch it forward a little again. But like a mentioned I dont move very far off mid stick.

Motor also just doesn't sound right. I know I'm significantly more agressive then when I first got it but then I was doing flips at idle up 1 and could barely hear the motor bog. At idle up 2 would just about never bog. Now idle up 2 sounds like idle up 1 did and I dont even try to use idle up 1. I'm no 3D pro so I dont get offended easily

I'm not getting tail wag the tail spirals.

The motor that you got was it a direct swap? When I started looking they looked like outrunners.

 

[coolgabsi]

Just have to cut the top where battery sits like just a wee bit.. Cacti knife and you are good but its much shorter too.. So it won't touch the battery


As far as a swap .. Highly recommend the carbon motor stiffener by astroid designs. It'll help..
Definitely have the right size screws, rest it's just installing the pinion with a wick of green loctite. And just install it in and get the gear mesh right

Very very easy!

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[xokia]

Just have to cut the top where battery sits like just a wee bit.. Cacti knife and you are good but its much shorter too.. So it won't touch the battery


As far as a swap .. Highly recommend the carbon motor stiffener by astroid designs. It'll help..
Definitely have the right size screws, rest it's just installing the pinion with a wick of green loctite. And just install it in and get the gear mesh right

Very very easy!

Fly safe!! have fun!

I'll check it out thanks! What type of flight times are you getting now? I've read the inrunner motors are more efficient than the outrunners.

Does the motor come down cooler?

 

[coolgabsi]

I haven't checked the temps.. I haven't changed my time.. I just fly 4-4.5 minutes ... Got 7 batteries so I didn't really care

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[xokia]

I haven't checked the temps.. I haven't changed my time.. I just fly 4-4.5 minutes ... Got 7 batteries so I didn't really care

Fly safe!! have fun!

I fly 5 min pretty hard with the stock motor so there might be a little difference. The stock motor comes down pretty dang warm though. I suspect that outrunner wont even be warm to the touch. I press my 450 pretty hard and that motor is never warm.

Thanks for the input, know of the best place to buy the HP08?

Are you from Mexico? I work with a lot of guys from Guadalajara. I'm hoping the company sends me down there one of these days. I've been down to Cozumel and loved it. Wife is from Peru so I know a little spanish, probably just enough to get me in trouble though.

 

[xokia]

Starting to narrow this down I think. I started paying more attention when it bogs down and notice its got a bad head shake when off loading the head.
I reduced the gain on elevator and aileron -3 on each and rundder was always at -2. This helped some, I think this wobble is robbing the power from the motor.

Red O-rings maybe?

 

[coolgabsi]

I fly 5 min pretty hard with the stock motor so there might be a little difference. The stock motor comes down pretty dang warm though. I suspect that outrunner wont even be warm to the touch. I press my 450 pretty hard and that motor is never warm.

Thanks for the input, know of the best place to buy the HP08?

Are you from Mexico? I work with a lot of guys from Guadalajara. I'm hoping the company sends me down there one of these days. I've been down to Cozumel and loved it. Wife is from Peru so I know a little spanish, probably just enough to get me in trouble though.

Hahaha


I am actually an Indian. I get confused for being from Mexico all the time cause of my first name. So I go by my last. You probably know a lot more Spanish than I do. I love Spanish as a language have been trying to learn it


As far as buying the hp08, I can suggest Astroid Designs — 130X

This is a one man operation. He has things for a lot of helis. Dylan is his name. He is extremely helpful and will go over the top to make his customers happy. And his products are creative and very useful.

Anywaz.. He has the hp08 .. Hp08 apparently comes in two different types with no part number discrimination. One comes with a smaller motor shaft and one with the longer. And then you have to have precisely right size pinion for it


Dylan would have everything at one place.. So you can get that, plus the motor mount stiffener and some extra screws that are a special size for the hp08, the stock screws are .01mm too big.. I broke one inside the motor so I know lol

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[xokia]

Hahaha


I am actually an Indian. I get confused for being from Mexico all the time cause of my first name. So I go by my last. You probably know a lot more Spanish than I do. I love Spanish as a language have been trying to learn it

I asked because I think I saw the top of your car painted in what I thought were the mexican flag colors in one of your posts.
American Indian or India Indian?

I went to Bangalore last year stayed at the Leela Palace was a pretty nice place.

 

[coolgabsi]

Hey nice!!! I am from the north (new Delhi)
Had some culture shock ??

The flag is actually Indian flag.. If I post a pic here you'll see it has a circle in the center but its bit the first time it gets confused for Mexican flag either hahah don't worry. I answer that question at least once a day

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[Tony]

For some reason I'm having a "Super Troopers" flashback...

 

[Tony]

Super Troopers They Think I'm Mexican - YouTube

 

[coolgabsi]

Roflmao!!

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[xokia]

Just cleaning up my thread. I dont mind it going off topic.

So my boca bearings are already shot. There is a lot of slop in the tail shaft which causes the tail to vibrate like heck which in turn robs power from the motor. I think I'm going to look into a different tail box. This stock one with this style bearings just isn't working the way it should.

*edit*
I think I may have finally found the problem. The torque tube shaft I could move slightly back and forth. This probably puts a bunch of stress on the bearings and causes them to wear out really fast. So I pushed the plastic gear back on the shaft more and removed all the play. I dropped and lost the rudder gear when I was trying to put it back together. So I wont know if this fixes the problem until tomorrow.

I also purchased a microheli tail box as a backup.

 

[xokia]

I recieved the Rakon bearings on Monday. They look different then the Boca's. The difference is the boca's look more sealed and more like stock. The Rakon's appear to be open. So that you could easily grease or lube them. I'd speculate though as fast as that tail spins around anything you stick in there will probably get flung out pretty quick. I really dont think this is going to turn out to be a bearing issue. I am starting to believe that the claims of the stock bearings being junk as bad information also.

From what I can tell the torque tube gear works its way off and creates slack in thr torque tube rod. Then under load the torque tube shaft gets pushed into the bearings. This creates signifacantly more load on the bearings and causes them to wear out really fast. I removed the worn out boca bearing and installed one of the stock bearings (the side that wasn't worn out). Once I get my tail gears I'll stick them back in and see how the thing flys.

My speculated fix was to shove the torque tube gear further back on the shaft and remove the slack. I'm thinking when people replace the tail box they are also doing this and claiming to fix the problem. When the real problem is probably not the tail box but the gear slidding off and creating slack.

 

[heli-maniac]

the most likely cause of it eating up the tail bearing next to the slider is the slider hitting the tail case causing it to flex and twist the bearing on the shaft
i have 75 to a 100 flights on my Rakon tail case and have not sign of bearing wear

 

[xokia]

I don't think the slider or servo is strong enough to flex that tail box. Even if it did the bearings would move with the tail box.

I think when the motor spins up it shoves the torque tube shaft toward the rear of the helicopter. If you have any back and forth play on that shaft it gets pushed into the bearings.

We'll see I guess because the Boca bearings wore out in about 3 flights. I scavenged on boca bearing and one stock bearing. When I get the new rudder gear I'll slap it back on and try it out. If its the tailbox is should wear out just as quick.

 

[heli-maniac]

you wore a bearing out in 3 flights ya i would say you got a big problem back there.
the only way the TT could cause force on it is if it was installed backwards

 

[coolgabsi]

Haha you are overthinking this bro.


It's not the small torque tube gear tearing apart your bearing its just the rpm it's running and stock bearings are not just dying in the back of the tail box where the big torque tune gear sits but also in the sides where the output shaft fits.


Your gears are supposed to touch the bearings and when they don't the bearing is not in any pressure..


While that's true if you over shove anything in your gear train or even if make it tight, you are gonna introduce vibrations and friction in your already tight gear train. It is suggested to have a little play in your torque tube to give you a good mesh in the front tt gears also, for efficient running system.

While there is nothing wrong with running your own set of tests, I can tell you it's not what you are thinking, and yes stock bearings are crap I went through 5 pairs before I could afford my lynx upgrades and the lynx bearings I checked yesterday are good as new. After flights on a higher rpm even with a metal rear tt gear.

Yes when the side bearings on the output shaft wear out, just the torque of blades is enough to make it jam the loose bearing one direction or the other and cause it to lock up ..

Yes the torque of the servo is not bear enough to budge the plastic tail box let alone metal... But the bearing wear is not due to that anywaz. It's just that they are not sealed properly and the little bearing balls are collecting dust particles and when they try to ride with or over that dust... FAIL! Lol

Fly safe!! have fun!