450 HK450GT (Align SE V2)

[Tony]

I am to the point now where I have all but given up on this helicopter. I have tossed every align part at it that I cna possibly toss, and still there are issues.

I took it out day before yesterday to get a little stick time, and found out that not only was I not getting 10º of pitch, but my 0º was WAY OFF! Yesterday it rained all day so today I had to do some errands and when I got back, I sat it on the table and did the complete setup again.

Now remember, this is an Align head (flybar). It was donated to the site by lilyryan for which I'm very grateful, but it will only hit 9.5º of positive collective before the head bottoms out. Not near enough. Oh well, it will fly like that. So I set the gyro up (Align GP780, again, thank you Ryan) and take it outside.

I get out there and spool it up. This thing has a horrible wag (slow because of the crap servo) but it's in teh air. I do a punch-out and it's very lazy. No punch at all. So just to see what happens, I click it into IU1. Well, I forgot to set up IU1 lmao. So no change. Well, not yet...

I all of a sudden noticed the helicopter descending to the ground like the LVC kicked in (and I thought it could have, I never charged this battery lol) but I heard another new noise.

Thanks once again to Ryan, this helicopter has a Scorpion motor. I'm also running Align helical gears on it. But somehow the pinion slid DOWN the shaft! Stripping the hell out of my new main gear of which I do not have another.

I didn't realize this until it landed it's self in teh grass where the tail blades dug in (did I forget to mention this helicopter doesn't have a vertical stabilizer? lmao) and that is when I heard that fantastic noise of the gears being stripped. It's a belt tail, so it was the main gear lol.

I want to keep a flybar helicopter so that I can do some testing on it, but this thing is pissing me off more than my 250 did (the Original NIGHTMARE!!!). If I can't find a way to get 12º of pitch, then there is no reason to even fly it because this is the one that I like to just toss around the sky. Way more than my 450 Pro V2 which has more than enough power and pitch lol.

So if this were your helicopter, what would you do? The only thing left HK is the bearing blocks for the main shaft, the frame and the tail blade grips and the tail box in the rear. It has a full align head, Align gears, align tail block front (v3), align tail boom and align tail shaft. Pretty much all fo the align parts but the frame and tail grip/block in the rear.

So what would you do?

 

[KLA]

Tony, why can't you get more than 9.5° of pitch? There are a number of things to cause this, but I'm sure you have it set up correctly. I'm also sure that you know a heck of a lot more than I do, but sometimes you can get so frustrated that something silly will slip your mind. Is your swash mix allowing enough travel of the swashplate? What about your endpoints? Linkages all long enough? Like I said, I don't wanna offend you cause you probably know a lot more than I do. Just wanted to throw a few things out there in case they slipped your mind. I know that sometimes I get so frustrated that I just have to walk away.

On a different note, I have a Hausler 450 seV2 and the build quality is far better than the HK. The RTF kit came with all CF frame, CNC aluminum head, swash and tail, digital servos and a clone 401 gyro. The only thing I ever did to it was check all of the screws for thread lock and never had any problems with it.

 

[trainrider06]

I got some gyro's.....

 

[KLA]

Hey Rodney, how's it goin? What are you doin up at this time of the day? I thought I was the only one that couldn't sleep.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with the gyro on my 450 seV2. It works great. The only gyro I have a problem with is the 401 on my 250. It works fine but is just too big.

 

[trainrider06]

Hi Keith, well I just happen to have a couple of FB gyro's one is a something tech 2100
Works really well but needs a real good tail servo for it to operate fully, fairly easy to set up too, and I have a Spartan DS760 that once it is set up its locked as good as the best gyro's. That's the problem though, the thing can be a pain to get set up! If I remember correctly you have to put a bind plug into the gyro in one of the setup steps. But it really is a very solid gyro once set up! You can have either one or both of em, They are just sitting in the box doing me no good!

 

[murankar]

Think this air frame has some lower end digital servos. They don't so well and there centering is not dead on.

 

[Tony]

Tony, why can't you get more than 9.5° of pitch? There are a number of things to cause this, but I'm sure you have it set up correctly. I'm also sure that you know a heck of a lot more than I do, but sometimes you can get so frustrated that something silly will slip your mind. Is your swash mix allowing enough travel of the swashplate? What about your endpoints? Linkages all long enough? Like I said, I don't wanna offend you cause you probably know a lot more than I do. Just wanted to throw a few things out there in case they slipped your mind. I know that sometimes I get so frustrated that I just have to walk away.

On a different note, I have a Hausler 450 seV2 and the build quality is far better than the HK. The RTF kit came with all CF frame, CNC aluminum head, swash and tail, digital servos and a clone 401 gyro. The only thing I ever did to it was check all of the screws for thread lock and never had any problems with it.

Your not going to offend me by trying to find something that I over looked, I assure you.

The issue is the mixing arm block that slides up and down the main shaft. It's hitting the head block, stopping it from moving any further up. I have the head set up perfectly with the mixing and washout arms perfectly level at mid stick. The only way I can get more pitch is to lengthen the the links going from the swash to the mixing arms. This will end up giving me more pitch. All of the other links on the head are solid. Sitting here looking at it, it almost looks like the swash driver links are too long causing teh swash to be too high thus not giving enough room for the swash to move up adn give proper pitch.

I got some gyro's.....

Me to, the Align GP780. And absolutely fantastic gyro! Works perfectly. The servo however is complete crap and I need to dial in some delay to keep it from wagging.

Think this air frame has some lower end digital servos. They don't so well and there centering is not dead on.

You are exactly right. I am using the Corona DS929HV servos on the swash. Horrible centering, slow and have a LOT of slop in them. For the tail, I'm using the EXI D213F servo. Great servo for the price, but I need a .8 second or faster servo on the tail of this helicopter to hold the tail solid.

Goes without saying that I just don't have the money to put servos on this thing. If I did, and if I can get this head figured out, then this could be a great helicopter.

And an update on the stripped gear. I pulled the motor off and had a look. There are two grub screws that hold the motor body together to the motor shaft. Both of those were loose. And the grub screw on the pinion was also loose. But wait, there's more. The screws holding the motor in the frame was loose. It wasn't until late last night I realized I put that motor in just so I didn't lose it. I set the mesh and everything, but still had to put thread locker on it. That was about a year ago. Goes to show, PreFlight Checks Are A MUST!

 

[trainrider06]

EMax D09's are excellent cyclic servos! As for the tail, I think Keith knows about some of those Turnigy servo's from Hobby King, says they are really pretty good servo's. I also have a Furaba 9650 but it's a nylon gear.
As well an Align DS520. I didn't even see when you asked me about servo's the other day!

 

[Tony]

send me that 520, it'll fit lmao.

 

[trainrider06]

Threw it in box, had to crack my tape job back open dang it!!! Lol will get it out tomorrow with esc's am already running late now so won't have time to get by the PO to send it today....

 

[Tony]

Trust me, I"m in no hurry. Seriously need a new helicopter to replace this one. The 450 Plus FB version is specifically what I'm looking at. Same as the SE V2, just updated. But yea, prolly not lmao.

 

[Tony]

So apparently I can run a website and NOT be able to read... Because this is NOT an Align head, it's Tarot. Which is still better than absolute crap, but it's still soft metal and definitely explains why I'm having to throw off my geometry on the head just to get to 12º of pitch...

I had some parts that I purchased when a local store was getting rid of all Align parts so I thought maybe the swash drivers on the washout arms were too long. Nope. They are exactly the same as the Align.

With that said though, I don't have another main gear which was stripped almost all the way. But since it was not stripped all the way, I cleaned up the teeth and set the pinion to just above flush. I also set a tighter than normal gap on the mesh. Not to mention I applied more thread lock to the motor and pinion than I did to teh whole helicopter lmao. (no, not really)

But that brings up another pretty major issue... I still can't find my damn DX9 charger... And my DX9 batteries are dead thanks to having a little fun on Phoenix.

IT's always something... Time to do some major housekeeping... eh, maybe tomorrow...

 

[murankar]

Yeah that could be An issue. I know where my charger is anyways lol

 

[Tony]

It's only about 75F outside right now with a very slight breeze...

 

[KLA]

Tony, you said the lockout block is hitting the head stopping full positive pitch, how much negative pitch do you have? Even though you have the head setup perfect and zero at mid stick, is the swashplate at the center of travel at mid stick? Or is it too high? If the servo to swash links are too long then your swash won't be centered at mid stick causing the lockout block to hit the head like you described. I'm sure you probably already know this but it is something to double check anyway.

What type of main gear do you have? Straight teeth or slanted? I have a bunch of extra straight tooth main gears, if you wanna PM me, I can send you a couple. Also have a couple extra one way bearings and pinions to match if you need them. Let me know bud.

 

[Tony]

The issue is, with the solid links, there is no adjustment. In order to keep the mixing and washout arms level, the swash has to be very high. Negative pitch... A LOT!!! lol. I have found a work around to at least get me to 12º of pitch. I may go 13 if I decide to put the Align 450MX motor on it. Not sure yet. But yea, I knew that but always encourage help from others just in case I missed something. Like it NOT being an Align head, and being a Tarot head lmao.

 

[Tony]

Oh, and I'm running helical gears (slant). I don't run straight gears anymore. Only thing I have that has straight gears is my 600 Nitro, and that is because I have not found a clutch bell gear that is helical lmao. Otherwise it would have them too.

 

[Tony]

Well, I just spent the last hour looking for that friggin charger and it's nowhere to be found. I guess I'm just SOL. Suck.

 

[KLA]

Oh, and I'm running helical gears (slant). I don't run straight gears anymore. Only thing I have that has straight gears is my 600 Nitro, and that is because I have not found a clutch bell gear that is helical lmao. Otherwise it would have them too.

OK no problem. Can't help you with the helical gears. But if you get in a bind and want to go back to the straight gear just to get your heli in the air, let me know. I have gears and pinions to match if you need them. Just wanted to offer.

Can you legnthen the links that go from the swash to the flybar cage? Or are those solid too? On my 450seV2 these can be adjusted. If you can adjust them you can get the swashplate lowered at mid stick giving you more positive pitch without throwing off the geometry of the head. But you would also have to adjust the swash to servo links to lower the swash. If you can adjust both sets that should solve your problem.

 

[Tony]

That is what I was going to try when I realized my charger was missing. I thought it was in the studio, nope. I thought it was around my desk, nope. Maybe beside my night stand (nighttime programming lmao), nope. In another case, nope. The friggin thing is just gone. So I tried to make one with just a 12v power supply. Guess what, this thing uses a really weird size for the plug... I'm completely boned here. No tx means can't do ANYTHING!!! And just when I was getting the itch. Suck.