Blade Fusion 360 servo creep

[newoldguy62]

I have a Blade Fusion 360 thats been crashed, not violenly, but enough to strip servo gears, and ruin a set of blades.
Did all repairs, not at spoolup, the servos will start creeping, more as RPMs increase.
I have do e everything but replace flight controler, and receiver.
Anybody help?

 

[RandyDSok]

Since the term "creep" is not technically defined and everyone may have their own idea of what that may be... I will use mine but also try to describe it.

To me "creep" is where a servo or control surface continues moving in the last direction they were moved in... so if you move it forward, then it continues moving forward for some amount of time after you have stopped your input on the radio.

If that is what you are talking about... I'd start looking for causes of binding within the linkages and the control surfaces themselves as well as the servo. So just test the servo by itself with nothing connected to it, this is so you can remove it as the possible cause of the creep. Then if you can do something similar with a control surface disconnected from everything, do that to eliminate it as a possible cause. I'd suspect the linkage is the more likely cause and is why I mentioned testing the other things first...

Whatever the cause in the example I gave... something is binding. The servo is capable of moving farther but is pushing against the binding even after input has stopped... the binding slowly releases and the movement is able to complete the travel that is already under load from the initial input. What I'd suspect second is the control surface having the bind and much the same process is happening so as the cause of the bind is released, the movement can finish the travel it started.

 

[newoldguy62]

Since the term "creep" is not technically defined and everyone may have their own idea of what that may be... I will use mine but also try to describe it.

To me "creep" is where a servo or control surface continues moving in the last direction they were moved in... so if you move it forward, then it continues moving forward for some amount of time after you have stopped your input on the radio.

If that is what you are talking about... I'd start looking for causes of binding within the linkages and the control surfaces themselves as well as the servo. So just test the servo by itself with nothing connected to it, this is so you can remove it as the possible cause of the creep. Then if you can do something similar with a control surface disconnected from everything, do that to eliminate it as a possible cause. I'd suspect the linkage is the more likely cause and is why I mentioned testing the other things first...

Whatever the cause in the example I gave... something is binding. The servo is capable of moving farther but is pushing against the binding even after input has stopped... the binding slowly releases and the movement is able to complete the travel that is already under load from the initial input. What I'd suspect second is the control surface having the bind and much the same process is happening so as the cause of the bind is released, the movement can finish the travel it started.

Thanks for your input, i can level the swashplate, set heli down, initiate spool up, and as the RPMs increase, the right side, and rear servos startcto move, to the point that if i was to let it go without adjustingvtrim, it would just flip over, after i shut it down, they will move back, if i spool up in normal, it seems ok, as soon as i switch to idle up 1, they start moving, even without blades, you're right i do need to isolate them, to check..
Very strange
Thanks.

 

[newoldguy62]

Name is Lance, the oldnewguy im 61, was racing off roads, around 1984, in Round Rock Tx. now in Bastrop Tx. Back in the hobby with helis this time, 4 years ago i started with off roads again, went into helis, then boats, then airlplanes, i forgot to mention i learned to fly with a 250mm race drone, took a year to get it down, have not flown 3d, want to.
I do have knowledge on building boats, and airplanes, lots of motor, esc, and servo knowledge, if needed, im a machinist, welder, and fabricater, with plastic, and metal.
If i can help anyone, i will.

 

[RandyDSok]

Thanks for your input, i can level the swashplate, set heli down, initiate spool up, and as the RPMs increase, the right side, and rear servos startcto move, to the point that if i was to let it go without adjustingvtrim, it would just flip over, after i shut it down, they will move back, if i spool up in normal, it seems ok, as soon as i switch to idle up 1, they start moving, even without blades, you're right i do need to isolate them, to check..
Very strange
Thanks.

While I wouldn't discount my initial post... with this additional description it's sounding more like a transmitter, gyro and or a flight controller setting that is mixing in additional movements in the model. I'll have to leave it with others that are more familiar with heli setups as what to suggest that you check. These are actually wanted features if this is the case to help with torque, wind effects and other things like of those types.

 

[newoldguy62]

Im using an NX8 with the preprogram for the BNF. I tried it again today, cannot fly it, im leaningctowards the flight controller

 

[RandyDSok]

Being preprogrammed means nothing other than the controls are close to the recommended settings. They will always require tweaking to match the differences that the models will have.

 

[newoldguy62]

Yeah, did all that when i first got it, i flew it a couple of times, then the crash into the trees, knew it was coming, shut down motor, it went through the trees pretty quick, im assuming it hit pretty hard, it trashed a set of blades, and stripped gears on all cyclic servos, i replaced all servos, installed a new set of blades, and flew it again, this time, i had a somewhat rough landing, didn't break anything, but now i have this, yesterday i took a few minutes with it, with motor not connected to main gear, it will move slightly, in normal, idle up 1, they start really moving, switch to idle up 2, they move at least 30° or more, very irratic, never the same, so i dont know what it will do, i know i have heard people talking about th 360 laying over during spool up, this one would do it, if i don't cut throttle.
One qyestion, when i go into forward programming, to adjust subtrim, should the servos jump, and move up, or down depending on the mode, once you back out out of subtrim, they go back to where they were? They move alot, i mave have the swahplate adjusted too high, or too low.
Dont know.

 

[newoldguy62]

I have checked everything, and there is nothing binding.
Im totally confused, just wanna fly..
Thanks Randy..

 

[RandyDSok]

I don't fly heli's ... so all I can mention is stuff I've read or if it's a normal thing in other areas that I do have experience in. My order of operations in these steps should be in question since this isn't something I do typically.

I know from reading what the guys that do know what to do... After a crash they go through everything again just like you'd do when first setting up a model. This goes as far as even making sure all screws and bolts are still tightened down to spec.

Remove the rotor blades from the heli. Recalibrate the throttle so the ESC knows the end points. Re-attach the blades. Then balance the blades ( or double check that they are in balance ). With the servos at zero, make sure the servo arms are at 90° from the servo itself. Then with the model on a level surface, level the swash plate. At some point, they set the pitch that the blades run at but I'm not sure when that is done. I believe the next steps depend on if your model is a flybar type or flybarless. I think the FB one is the one you set the gyro up according to it's instructions. I believe this is where the FBL model, you go through the flight controller settings using whatever software it needs ( think Betaflight etc ). Since the FC setup will differ between models, I'll leave it to you to find the appropriate steps yours needs. I'm about at the end of my generalized knowledge on the subject.

If you have specific questions on any, all or part of it... ask specifically what you want and someone else with some actual experience should pop in here next time they are on the forum.

 

[D.O.G.]

I have checked everything, and there is nothing binding.

I don't know anything about blade helis but have you tried setting up a new model in your TX?

 

[newoldguy62]

I hear ya, this thing is giving me fits, i have tried everything i've read, heard, and seen, control arms are the length thwy recommend, i've leveled the swashplate, and got the subtrim zeroed wirh swashplate leveled, but spooling up one time, and it's off again, i not a rocket surgeon, but, like you said i think the flight control system was damaged in the crash. I've gone through every detail on the transmitter., but i could be missing something.

 

[D.O.G.]

flight control system was damaged in the crash.

I wouldn't doubt it was the FC that is bad. There's no such thing as quality control anymore. It's has gone to hell

 

[RandyDSok]

I wouldn't doubt it was the FC that is bad. There's no such thing as quality control anymore. It's has gone to hell

Not arguing that point ... but I'll also point out that the crash could have also messed up the settings in the FC and if that is all it is, then going back through the setup for it would straighten it out... if it isn't physically damaged somehow.

It doesn't take much to switch a setting in software... just a minor power blip or static shock can mess it up and nothing physically be actually wrong.

 

[D.O.G.]

All kidding aside, I agree with Randy about the crash. I know for a fact that I do crash with authority and ruin FC before

 

[newoldguy62]

Im definately thinking yall are both right, just hate to have to spend that money,. No worries, i will change the servos aswell, what's a good servo for this thing, i'm noy
t buying the H3055s, i've had nothing but trouble with them.

 

[newoldguy62]

I don't think there is any quality control on anything made outside of the USA.
I certainly agree with that.

 

[newoldguy62]

Im going to have ti sit down, and take some time to go through the entire set up, and configuration, one more time before i make that order, really would like to go with another FC , and RX set up. Any thoughts?
Not real fond of Spektrum after dealing with my E= flite airplanes.

 

[RandyDSok]

With any radio brand, you will find the cheap ones, the lower end radios, the more the middle of the road ones and high end radios. Spektrum carries models in each of the categories as do brands like Futaba and Hitec ... along with the other lesser known brands. A quality radio is NEVER about how many channels it has... its about the features and the extra channels just come along with those features that are added. In fact, adding channels to a radio model has very little cost associated with it. I believe Spectrums better line of radio's are starting with their 14 and 20 channel radios if I were to guess.

My Futaba 8FG ( a middle of the road at the time ) originally had 8 channels, which grew to 10 and then 14 with just a firmware update, no additional hardware was required because the radio protocol already had more channels designed into it. Adding features would have likely required more electronic hardware and that is what would drive up the cost of a radio, not the number of channels.

Unlike long ago, when features were less obvious... These days you can almost tell ( heavy on the almost ) the level of radio by the screen that they have put on it. Larger screens make programming easier. Color screens are also an added cost and are again another nice feature. Then you have the flexible assignable switches, buttons and knobs ... all of the different methods of mixing channels... I wouldn't be surprised if some even have voice commands now ( I don't keep up with it anymore ).

As far as I'm concerned... E-Flight's claim to fame is the ease of entry into the hobby while standing behind their products. They introduced the bind-n-fly concept which is compatible with the Spectrum radios... and then Spectrum became more important into the market. They are in the just good enough category but I don't think they've ever made a really good model... they just have a good reputation for standing behind what they do make.

As for downloadable model memories... I feel it's more of a marketing ploy as it is an actual help to the modeler. Because both brands promote each other, it does make it easy for them to have them and it does get you sort of close to a set of recommended settings. You still have to tune each model's setting for the specific model you have... no two settings will be the exact same even on the same model radio and aircraft. Manufacturing tolerances can not be made that precise no matter how much you spend on it.

E-Flight also has gone to an almost if not completely foam airplane for their line up. Foam is not and never has been rigid enough to be a precision flyer. For something precision, balsa is used for lighter weight and fiberglass for higher strength. Now each of these will often include additional carbon fiber plates and rods for an even stronger frame. Certainly there are poorly engineered and built balsa and fiberglass airframes out there also... so you still have to be picky about the brands you select... but none of the quality airframes will be made of foam IMO. The area to watch I believe will be in the 3D printed stuff as the materials they use are getting better almost by the day. I suspect at some point the cost of 3D printing may replace the foamy airplane market completely. I'm nearly certain they have the materials they'd like to use already ( or something close )... it's the time and cost they have to work on to make it more feasible. As mentioned, I can't talk about helicopters or multi-copters ... or what makes the difference between a cheap, good, mid or great one... but those details will fall in line with the airplanes also.

 

[newoldguy62]

I've always used Futaba, or flysky, the NX8 is middle of the road for Spekt4um, but not cheap, it's the same tx as any of the color screen, talk to you forward programming transmitters, only the ix models are touch screen. I always have rhe DX6e, it's justcbasic, but does have forward programming, Don' t get me wrong, Spektrum does make some qualiry components, and some quality producrs, im not thrilled with this 360
Ive been using them for about 4 years, i don't call the guys at horizon for any help, never got anywhere with them. I really don"t gave a need for anyrhing over 7 channels anyway