General 450X Test Flight

[Heliman450]

Hi all, just mooching round the threads catching up on all the good info. whilst killing some time. Can't go flying for a couple of days, stuff going on at home and weather very windy until Wednesday.

I can hardly wait to test out my Blade after looking into new settings for the Tx. Did all the pre-flight checks on Saturday (including weighing it). My Phoenix Shows it weighing in at 0.717kg but heli is 0.822kg with the battery. This makes a noticeable difference to the way it works on the Simulator. I was wondering how many of the values shown in the advanced settings are standard "guesstimates" . Any Feedback from those in the know will be much appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

Heliman450

 

[Tony]

Wow, I have never went that far to weigh the bird and stick it into the sim. That is some dedication there! Might have to try that. But in all honesty, it will not hurt your real bird. It will fly just fine as long as your other settings are correct.

 

[Heliman450]

Wow, I have never went that far to weigh the bird and stick it into the sim. That is some dedication there! Might have to try that. But in all honesty, it will not hurt your real bird. It will fly just fine as long as your other settings are correct.

Hi Tony, of course I understand that the heli is as the heli is. I was curious as to how close the simulator is to the real thing. I looked further into the settings of the simulator and there are many, which are obviously different. That's why I hear people saying that it's not the same for the real world, of course not when the settings aren't the same. I can't imagine Phoenix spending lots of time making sure that all the calculations in the back are perfect. They'll only do what's necessary to give the approximate relationship. Time is Money.

My objective is to find a way to help absolute beginners understand simply what's going on instead of saying "Here you go take this Tx. I just set up for you. Just play around for a while, of course you'll crash but we all did that LoL"

The secret of doing things safely and as correctly as possible first time is make sure the Basics are clear and understood. I've heard so many time in my industry people saying "We always do it that way". That's why so many serious accidents are just waiting to happen, not enough training and understanding.

Lecture for today over.

Best regards,
Heliman450

 

[trainrider06]

I'd be interested in knowing how that turns out! Would be cool to try out heli's before you bought one!

 

[Heliman450]

Hi trainrider06 (Rodney), latest update is that I tried out my first test flight of the 450X using the settings from the simulator. The heli would only just lift off into a hover. I already knew (using Tony's ace video) that my AR7200BX held pitch degree settings of min stick -11.0, 50% -2.7 and max stick +8.7. I haven't been back to the shop since Thursday to re-set the AR7200BX. Planning that for tomorrow. Watch this space for next update.

It looks like Phoenix doesn't come near to creating a simulation of my real Blade 450X. Next test after the new settings installation will be another piece in the jig-saw.

Regards,
Heliman450

 

[trainrider06]

Wonder how you could find out the settings in the SIM itself?
Or do you know what they are already? Sounds like a lot of tweaking
Going on there!

 

[Heliman450]

Wonder how you could find out the settings in the SIM itself?
Or do you know what they are already? Sounds like a lot of tweaking
Going on there!

If you have Phoenix R/C v5.0w go into the tabs "Model"/"Edit". There you see a display of the chosen model. Bottom left of the picture are two buttons "Simple" and "Detailed". Click on "Detailed" and a side menu is displayed with five different design aspects of the model to choose from. Drop each one in turn and check out what's listed.

Open up the "Physical" tab under "Model" and there you see a list of all kinds of settings. As I mentioned previously, Phoenix listed weight as 0.717kg, my 450X with the battery and training gear weighs-in at 0.822kg. Just this difference requires a change in the pitch to lift the simulator's 450X. The "y" coordinate of the centre of gravity (CoG) was 0.045151m. With the training gear fitted this is actually 0.065151. i.e. 0.02m higher. Of course this doesn't make any difference for a vertical takeoff into a hover but the base size of the training gear does when one uses the cyclic stick. My training gear is slightly wider than the diameter of the rotor so giving extra protection against a roll over. All quite simple stuff but just needs some thinking about.

I'm limiting what I change in the settings to better understand the differences between virtual and real. Just to get my 450X off the ground needed 100% stick (+ 8.7 degrees of pitch) so I need to reset the AR7200BX to give 100% stick = + 11.0 degrees.

I'll Keep you updated on what goes on in the real world!

 

[murankar]

You won't be able to use the same numbers in the sim as you do in the radio. One way to get things going is to use a metronome.

In a piro every time the tail is towards you; you should hear a click of the metronome. You will need to find a rate that you like then set the metronome to that rate. This can be done with the sim or model first, doesn't matter. Then go to the other and make it match. Wash rinse and repeat for aileron rolls and elevator flips.

Once your yaw, flip and roll rates are done then you can play around with pitch pumps for the blade pitch. You won't be able to use the metronome for this. You will need to use feel. Same goes for head speed. It will take a lot of back and forth to get the sim tuned to the model. Back to back flights between the sim and real heli.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner

 

[Heliman450]

You won't be able to use the same numbers in the sim as you do in the radio. One way to get things going is to use a metronome.

In a piro every time the tail is towards you; you should hear a click of the metronome. You will need to find a rate that you like then set the metronome to that rate. This can be done with the sim or model first, doesn't matter. Then go to the other and make it match. Wash rinse and repeat for aileron rolls and elevator flips.

Once your yaw, flip and roll rates are done then you can play around with pitch pumps for the blade pitch. You won't be able to use the metronome for this. You will need to use feel. Same goes for head speed. It will take a lot of back and forth to get the sim tuned to the model. Back to back flights between the sim and real heli.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner

Hi Murankar, thanks for the tips, I look Forward to using them when the time arises.

I'm aware that the settings won't be the same for simulator and heli, but I want to get a feel for how much different it really is.

Best regards,
Heliman450

 

[murankar]

Most sims need some tuning to get them to feel the same. One other thing I found is that the weight of the ready to fly models may not be the same also. So if you fly a 450x then weigh the ready to fly airframe. Take that weight and adjust your sim model to resemble your kit.

There are a lot of tweeking that can be done. The sim excels at muscle memory. Once you get your rates locked you should be golden.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner

 

[Heliman450]

Hi all,
Sorry for the delay in getting back on this topic. I only just got back from the field having used up four batteries on my investigations. Unfortunately, the wind caught my Blade 450X and I couldn't get it back before it crashed into some nearby trees .

I was able to develop a reasonable set of simulator settings and actual, field settings on the real deal. I can share them if anyone's interested but not right now as I'm busy doing my houshold chores ready for a short vacation. Maybe later this evening.

Best regards,
Heliman450

 

[Heliman450]

Hi again everybody,

I managaed to put together the settings I used during my trials. They're contained in the attached pdf.

Note that they are intended for absolute beginners to get used to programming the transmitter and also comparing the simulator to the real heli.

Any queries get back.

Have fun,
Heliman450

View attachment Helicopter Settings.pdf

 

[trainrider06]

Looks like you've been busy! Which sim do you have? Mines a Real flight 6.5

 

[jcfernan51]

I have Real Flight 6.5 as well don't now if this will work.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi all,
Have a look at thread #7 about 1 week ago. There I describe how to access the advanced setup features for my Phoenix. If there aren't similar tuning options in Real Flight then all it means is that you can't do anything (or maybe only reduced capabilities?) to try and get your simulator model to function more like the real thing. Up to now, I've only altered the weight and entered the pitch settings as per my Blade Setup (those in the pdf). There are many different parameters available to change. For example, the pop-up on weight tells one to also change the yaw settings, I haven't done this yet. It's next on my list, but I'm not doing 3D etc. yet, so I don't feel any pressure to change anything there right now.

Most significant in my test is to address the question of what settings to use for a beginner. I know all about being a beginner as I'm still classing myself in that category. My main problem has been that I didn't understand the capability of the radio to limit the actions of the heli, I just tried with an expert's view of what the settings should be. Now I do understand and I'm just exploring the relationship between simulator and real. My Guru could fly my Blade no problem but I couldn't.

The principles apply for any combination of heli, radio and simulator. Just accept that you can't run and setup accordingly to crawl, walk, run and then fly (hopefully inverted at the end). As a beginner I have no use for 24 degrees of pitch range, I only need about 2 degrees of positive pitch at most. As my pdf shows that's from plus 4.93 to 6.39, until I began the exercise to discover exactly what it all means, my stick moves gave way too much response from the heli resulting in crash after crash! At least my re-build skills are top notch (always look for the positive ).

The positive 4.93 degrees allows me to set the heli down gently and not slam it into the ground with negative pitch. The 6.39 limits the altitude I can reach in the hover. The simulator trials give me the opportunity to greatly reduce my crash ratio. I can now measure my performance in batteries between crashes instead of crashes per battery . My very limited D/R and large Expo Settings limit my potential to turn it over. Yes I need greater stick movement to keep the heli on the spot, but all this can change as my performance improves. Last time out, I was able to make many changes in the radio settings as I improved. The key to being able to succeed is to know what you're doing and not have to turn to someone every time something needs to be changed.

Best regards,
Heliman450

 

[Heliman450]

Hi all,

Back from our short holiday away in the mountains to escape the high temperatures and fulfill one of my wife's life wishes of visiting the Region and photographing Eidelweiss (quite rare but not as rare as Bigfoot!). I found two!

Since getting back, I stripped my Blade 450X and put together my required parts list. Fortunately, I already had some in my parts bin but one of my servos was stripped. The most costly part from the list! One Thing I noticed was that the parts listed in the exploded view I downloaded showed a helical main drive gear rather than the straight cut one fitted to my RTF heli. I bought the new main gears (a pair) and also a new helical drive pinion.

Anybody else had similar experience on this?

My bird is sitting on the bench ready for my final setup tomorrow. Let you know how it goes.

All the best,
Heliman450

 

[trainrider06]

I'm not sure but I think some of the pro models used the helical type gears as long as the tooth count is the same
Swapping gears shouldn't be an issue, helical gearing is supposed to be stonger is all.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Trainrider06, my point was only that the parts list doesn't match the model as built. I went for my first trial and setup flight this morning. I think that it sounds quieter, but maybe that's me being a bit optimistic.

Back to the field early tomorrow morning as everything's still in one piece and working well!

Bye now,
Heliman450

 

[trainrider06]

Hmm? Wonder if it was changed after a certain run on kits or something?
I assume you bought it new, may have just been a change mid production I'd guess

 

[Heliman450]

I was wondering if it was an early model (I bought it new RTF) and the more recent ones get the helical gears and the parts list reflects this. My local hobby shop told me they can supply both but for the reasons you mentioned, I decided for helical conversion.

- - - Updated - - -

Decided not to go to the field this morning. Something nasty bit me and my right hand looks a bit like a baseball glove (almost) will spend the time on the simulator instead