General Please Help. Trex 150 and 250

[1Swoopdog]

Hi guys, newb here.
I have both, Trex 150, and Trex 250. Both were BTF, so I didn't have to go through setup, because I know nothing about it.
I went through setup on both per manual settings. Both helis when I hold them in my hand buy the skids, at slow speed the swashplate seems to work fine. At high speed there seems to be a vibration, and the swashplate seems to bind, and after cyclic input the swashplate stays where it was put, when cyclic is returned to center.
It's doing this on both helis. Is this a setting in my radio (Futaba 8J-H), or is something bent? If I lower the head speed after the swashplate is stuck, when it gets to a lower speed it will return to level.
I bought these for fun, and have had nothing but frustration.

 

[Smoggie]

Micro helis CP can be very fiddly little beasts. I too have a Trex 150 but gave up on it as it's just too much hard work and frustration, easily the most fussy and difficult heli to work on I've ever owned. Give me 700+ size helis any day.

But anyway... have they been crashed? If they have had a crash then there is a very good chance something is bent. On the 150 the feathering shaft (the tiny shaft that the blade grips pivot on) bends incredibly easily (it's like a pin), and the main shaft isn't much better. If either is bent you will get bad vibrations, the 250 could suffer the same issues, plus it's got a tail shaft that can easily bend.

Having said that.. the behaviour you describe with the swash is quite normal. On a flybarless heli the sevos dont move directly in response to the Tx stick, they are controlled by the gyros in the FBL. If you give an aileron input and the heli it held preventing it from responding then the swash will stay over because it's trying to roll the heli like the stick input asked it to.

Overall my advice would be if you want to avoid massive frustration get something bigger!

 

[1Swoopdog]

Thanks for the info Smoggie.
Neither hell has been crashed. I haven't got them high enough to crash them. The 150 did have a main blade strike on the ground, but never tipped over.
I also have a 450L dominator, that I haven't built yet. I wanted to get training out of the way before I build and fly it.
I think I really need to set up my radio better. Both helis don't want lift off until almost full throttle, then it is really squirrely.
I can get about 5-6 inches off the ground, then it starts to drift. I can make 2 or 3 corrections, then I have to set it down. I guess I just need more practice.

 

[Smoggie]

Sounds like you need to work on you pitch and throttle curves. You should be hovering at or just above mid stick.

The 150 is really hard work, you need super fast reactions to fly it, very much NOT a heli to use to learn on. Much the same goes for any micro size collective pitch heli, small does not mean easy to fly, in fact the opposite is very much the case.

 

[holtneil]

Hi mate I second what smoggie said , I found on my micro if I had to much expo i landed up chasing the heli , what I mean is you put in a stick input nothing happens so you put in more then the servo catches up and you have too much movement so you have to correct it so you land up over controlling and crash or have to land , try this lower the servo travel so your not getting 100% and then reduce the expo
If that helps once you get better with control add more servo travel doing it this way I made the MPCX tame to fly

 

[Heliman450]

Thanks for the info Smoggie.
Neither hell has been crashed. I haven't got them high enough to crash them. The 150 did have a main blade strike on the ground, but never tipped over.
I also have a 450L dominator, that I haven't built yet. I wanted to get training out of the way before I build and fly it.
I think I really need to set up my radio better. Both helis don't want lift off until almost full throttle, then it is really squirrely.
I can get about 5-6 inches off the ground, then it starts to drift. I can make 2 or 3 corrections, then I have to set it down. I guess I just need more practice.

Hi 1Swoopdog, you don't have to get up off the ground to bend the feather shaft. If it's as thin as Smoggie's saying then any kind of blade strike could do the damage. I had one bent on my Blade 450 from just the same kind of event. I'm moving away from 450's for just the messing around with small parts, many of which aren't all that well made.

Good luck and don't give up just yet.

 

[1Swoopdog]

Hey guys........
Thanks for the additional information. I ordered a main shaft, and feathering shafts for both helicopters. When they get here I'll install them and see if that helps.
Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.

 

[holtneil]

Hi mate its not only a 450 when my 3GX went up it tipped my 500 over just so a tip of one blade touched down that did the main shaft and feathering shaft

 

[1Swoopdog]

Hi mate its not only a 450 when my 3GX went up it tipped my 500 over just so a tip of one blade touched down that did the main shaft and feathering shaft

Yep.......That is about what mine did, maybe both blades a couple of times.
I was hoping the shafts would show up today, but they didn't. Maybe tomorrow.

How long should the training wheels be for the Trex 250? I got one for the 450, but the arms are too long. It really makes the helicopter oscillate a lot.
I figured I would just cut the arms to a shorter length. Does anybody know what length they should be?

 

[Heliman450]

Hi 1Swoopdog, most important for your training gear is the weight, not too heavy. I'd make the rods about 80% of the rotor diameter. What materials are you using? Carbon fibre rods and sponge balls or something else?

Don't rush into things and be sure to go carefully with your strip-down and rebuild there are so many things that must be done correctly. Do you have access to someone with the necessary skills or are you relying on the Forum guys to support you? Study the videos and ask questions before starting if you're not confident to go it alone.

 

[1Swoopdog]

Hey Heliman, Thanks for the reply.
The training gear I have is carbon fiber, with the sponge balls. It's made for a 450, so I will just cut it down.

I don't have access to someone with the skills needed. I am relying on forum guys, and Utube videos. The helicopter is already apart, waiting on new main shaft, and feathering shaft.
Thanks for the info on the diameter of the training gear. I will cut them down to that.

 

[Mda1701d]

Hello swop,
I tried to start with a 450l but had a lot of trouble as it is so powerful. I bought a 450 clone in the end, and slowly upgraded it to flybarless, then to full align spec. There was a time when I didn't think I could ever get off the ground, but with patience and help from this forum and some friendly local people, I am now flying circuits etc. Two other things really helped me, the simulator has been great to learn orientations, and my little blade cpx. What a great heli, I can fly outdoors, even in a breeze, do big circuits, inverted, stall turns..... And if I crash it, there's normally no damage! I've been building a 250, see my thread, it's been by far the most fiddly horrid thing ever! Now it's finally complete, it doesn't even fly lol!

 

[holtneil]

Hi mate if you have problems with the 450l ,the 250 is going to be a real handfull , they have a mega head speed and are super fast I mean once you find your out of control its already crashed , many flyers dont touch a 250 for years I was flying 450s for a long tie got a 250 it crashed ever time I took it out , Bigger is better as they get bigger the slower they become in how fast you need to be to keep control and can be tamed on the servo travel and expo with the right pitch curve be very tame
Some of the new FBL units come with beginner mode ,recovery bailout, the Spirit pro can make a CP heli fly like a co-axle
As for training gear I would have it about 2 inches longer then the rotor disc area
this will stop most small tip overs
Crashing and fixing is all part of learning to fly , this is one of the hardest things your ever learn but once you master it WOW its so much fun

 

[1Swoopdog]

OK guys.....
I sent the 250 back, don't know the result yet, but will probably be store credit.
What would be the better 250? Would it be better to get the BTF with the 3GX MRS (yellow) or the Pro super combo with the 3GX Flybarless system?

What do you guys think?

 

[D.O.G.]

I agree with holtneil about the 250 being a hand full if the 450L is much for you. Have you checked at the Oxy line of helis like this: OXY3 - Oxy 3 Helicopter Kit Stretch 285mm main blade Checked it out. I think superbad has one and loves it.

 

[Smoggie]

1Swoopdog,

If this is your first ventures into RC flying the any collective pitch heli is going to be very difficult. You would really be better off with a stable fixed pitch heli to learn the basics on, something like the Blade 200SRX would be ideal to get you in the air. Trying to learn on a mini or micro collective pitch heli with no previous experience and no one to help you will be an extremely frustrating slow and costly experience.

 

[1Swoopdog]

Thanks for the reply.
I haven't flown a 450, I haven't even put it together yet. I don't know where the problem I was having with the 450 came from.
I already own the 250 and 150 trex. I am not going to buy a blade or any other helicopter. I'm trying to get a 250 that will hold the tail. The 250 I sent back would just oscillate, and make a slow turn clockwise, as soon as it got airborne.
I've read a lot about these Align flybarless systems not being any good. I learned last night that iKON seems to be a pretty good system, paired with the Castle Talon 15, for the 250.
So I was going to use the 250 I have with new electronics. When I asked about the 3GX MRS, and the 3gx, I didn't know about these other parts (iKON, Castle Talon 15). I'm stuck with learning on what I have.

 

[Smoggie]

Well fair enough but it wont be easy.

The Align 3GX based FBL systems though now obsolete and out of production can still work well enough, but they are quite difficult to set up. Even some experienced flyers struggle with them. It's a very hard challenge to have to learn to fly a CP heli AND learn to setup a heli all at the same time. Is there a club in your area that you can take the helis along to to get some help?

If you were going to get a different FBL system then it would be wise to get one with self leveling stabilisation, that would make the flying part much easier, though you still have the setup challenge. I'd recommend the Spirit but the iKon is another good option that has self leveling stability.


FWIW the fast shaking of the tail would indicate gyro gain set too high, the slow rotation of the heli could mean that you were in rate mode rather than heading hold mode?... But it's really hard to diagnose problems based on the written word. A video might help?

 

[Slobberdog]

Thanks for the reply.
I haven't flown a 450, I haven't even put it together yet. I don't know where the problem I was having with the 450 came from.
I already own the 250 and 150 trex. I am not going to buy a blade or any other helicopter. I'm trying to get a 250 that will hold the tail. The 250 I sent back would just oscillate, and make a slow turn clockwise, as soon as it got airborne.
I've read a lot about these Align flybarless systems not being any good. I learned last night that iKON seems to be a pretty good system, paired with the Castle Talon 15, for the 250.
So I was going to use the 250 I have with new electronics. When I asked about the 3GX MRS, and the 3gx, I didn't know about these other parts (iKON, Castle Talon 15). I'm stuck with learning on what I have.

I fly my 250m pro with the Spartan vortex and Blade ds76t tail servo and the tail is locked in solid and the heli flys like a dream, its as stable as my 500 pro for sure, oh and the best thing to sort the tail is to get a better/quicker tail servo.

here is a short video,

[video=youtube_share;BdxMNYpY1vE]https://youtu.be/BdxMNYpY1vE[/video]

 

[Smoggie]

A guy at the field where I fly has one with a Kbar fitted and it flies really well too.