450 Erazor 450 impossible tail

[CFowler1225]

Ok so I've had it for a few months, been flying my mcpx bl and airplanes but it's time for the 450. When I throttle up, all she does is rotate counter clockwise, I've tried about all I can think of. I removed the stock gy192 and I'm using a mystery g105, tried a hk gyro, twitched so skipped over it. Tried normal and reverse, gain at halfway about 100, non digital. The main rotor is going clockwise, the tail spins counter, blades are on in the correct direction. Testing hh the tail moves the correct direction, I even plugged the tail servo straight into the rx with no gyro.. Everything moves as it should. Belt is tight, swapped out tail servo, dx6i hh 70% dual is 30%. I have the travel adjust to where they should be before binding at max to boom or blades. At about 25% throttle she starts the spin. More throttle faster spin, lifts off, spins. Pitch is at 40,45,50 normal mode in tx. Even with rate mode and full right rudder, tail to the extreme end it spins just not as fast but uncontrollable. The only thing I'm not sure about is how much torque change would there be if the main rotor blades aren't perfectly pitch balanced with each other, is that enough to over power the tail? I have been having problems with both blades not aligning.

 

[Tony]

Sounds like yoru gyro correction direction is reversed. And on the 192 gyro, you reverse it by mounting it 180º of where you had it. Clink on the link below and watch Lee's great video on tail direction setup. Let me know if this helps.

Rc-Help - Gyro & Tail servo Direction Set up

 

[CFowler1225]

That didn't work, it's like the tail bogs down when the arm reaches the end and it doesn't have enough power to fight the main blade

 

[Tony]

Is there any way that you can post a video to what it's doing?

 

[CFowler1225]

erazor 450 - YouTube

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tail in rate mode - YouTube

 

[CFowler1225]

gy192 on upside down label back rate mode - YouTube

 

[Tony]

Wow, I have never seen it stick like that.

How much negative pitch are you running in these videos? You may be running enough that the tail can't power through it. And when you are ready to fly, make sure to do so in HH mode and not rate mode.

 

[Lee]

What happens when you spool it up faster?
In all those videos, the head speed was very low.
Until it reaches a certain point, the tail will have very little authority.
Everything looks to be working correctly in the first videos, not the last one.

 

[CFowler1225]

its at -4 at 0 throttle and + 4 at 50%, the blade pitch does match. I always try to hover in hh but it doesn't matter, the tail tries to correct but spinney spinney. Those videos were just to show whats going on, I got so mad I gave it enough to lift a few times outside but as soon as it leaves the ground I get the spin. The last vid was with the stock g192, I'm trying everything. If you look close you'll see the tail spin slows down when its supposed to be turning the nose right. If I increase the travel max the tail kinda locks there unless its spinning. Any ideas are welcome and thanks for your help!

 

[Lee]

This probably has nothing to do with your tail issue.
But what are your pitch curves?
At 50% stick, you should have 0º pitch.

 

[CFowler1225]

yeah your right about that last video, it was reversed, I'll take it outside tomorrow and give you some real footage if its not raining

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40 45 50 75 100 in normal if that's what your talking about, the blades are equal depending on stick movement

 

[Lee]

Ok cool
with the pitch curve linear 0,25,50,75,100
Do you have pitch of something like -10º to +10º with 0º at 50% ?

 

[CFowler1225]

If I give it more power it will just lift off and spin in the air and that's a blast, any details, pictures or videos you want let me know

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yeah + or - 1 degree

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I changed the motor pinion a few months ago when it started its crap because stock was eating the gear, used a rhino hard, if I don't have it tight enough could that be the problem? And the tail on a belt should run in some sort of a ratio right? It can't be slipping?

 

[Lee]

Ok its just that before you said at 50% (mid stick) you had 4º pitch not 0º
You checked your set up against my video on gyro and tail zero set up right?
If that is all correct, then the only things I can think of are.
Bad vibration to the Gyro.
Bad Gyro
slow speed servo.

 

[Lee]

Hold the tail grips still, and try to turn the head to see if anything slips.

 

[CFowler1225]

I can't get it to 0 pitch at 50% its a cheapo head and some of the screws stripped, I can pop on and off the linkages but to make it 0 they are dangerously close to pulling out. I'll have to check your vid, your suggestions are exactly what I thought but it's just super strange, everything lines up right, used a lot of double tape on the gyro... its the tail slider or the links that deflect the blades.. I can't get it. I have extra parts but that's a whole other party because I can't get the pole the blades and rotor holder slide on to off the darn thing to try the other parts, which are trex but compatible

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I feel it pushing

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I think I'll just have to take the entire thing apart then put it together again, if that doesn't work I'll say good luck on ebay if anyone wants it because I'm sick of looking at it

 

[Lee]

Is it one of these reverse swash plates? Does the pitch increase as the swash goes up or down?
If its normal, as the swash moves up, the pitch should increase.
Therefore, if you want 0º pitch at centre stick, when now you have 4º pitch, you should have to screw the links in more not out?

Lets make sure everything is set up correctly.
At mid stick 50%, servo horns should be 90º
Links to swash should make it level.
Here is a great pic I made to help you out.
Work up the head getting everything level.

 

[CFowler1225]

Thanks for the response. I'm working on getting it to 0 tonight, lol I took it to work with me, slow night at the hotel. Anyway screwing with the dx6i I noticed that the monitor was way off, I'm sure that didn't help the problem, did a stick calibration and now it's perfect. Also tightened the pinion closer to the main gear just in case

 

[Tony]

Make sure you have the proper gear mesh. The Razor is known for eating the gears. Mainly the main gear eating the pinion. I know, plastic eating brass, but it is what it is lmao. Keep us updated on how it's going.

Here is a video showing how to set proper gear mesh.

How To Set Proper Gear Mesh - YouTube

 

[CFowler1225]

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ok so after a few hours at "work" I got it to .5 pitch at 50% throttle, I also dug up a ton of spare parts I have, one way or another I'm going to get this done. I have a video after the pitch was changed, but it didn't help a lot. If I nose right it will stop it from spinning but won't turn nose right, the video is in HH mode. And I'm thinking try the other tail blades that are more square since they have more surface area and I'm going to move the tail servo to see if its not pushing it the entire way. btw thanks for your help and ignore my dirty floor, I had a flood and the landlord never fixed it like he said he would. And yes I've seen the pinion video before, I just had to double check, seemed slightly looser than I wanted it, I've watched a lot of your rc help dot com videos, very helpful. http://youtu.be/sutEnS6gWpg

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http://youtu.be/sutEnS6gWpg