General Can a helicopter actually be flown WITHOUT a gyro

Has anyone flown a heli without a gyro at all, I've connected all my servos directly to the RX and setup the us trims etc, levelled the swash, zero pitch at half stick... So I'm going to try it on my lazy Susan test bed first to get the tail pitch spot on and hold it steady.
 

Dirk

Member
You are a very brave man if you want to fly a FBL heli with no gyro Tony. I've seen a vid on YouTube somewhere where a guy has done that, but it was a 700 size heli. On a 450?? Nope, I won't even consider it!
 
You are a very brave man if you want to fly a FBL heli with no gyro Tony. I've seen a vid on YouTube somewhere where a guy has done that, but it was a 700 size heli. On a 450?? Nope, I won't even consider it!

Well Dirk, I cannot fly it WITH a gyro because it's stopped working now, so let's take it out the equation... Haha, I'll keep the headspeed as low as I can just to get it to hover...

Worth a try
 

Dirk

Member
I read about your unfortunate hypersonic headspeeds. If you have the heli attached to the lazy susan contraption, yeah, by all means give it a try. Untethered? No way in hell will I try that.

When I flew my first heli in 1981, there were no such things as gyros. The tail compensation was handled by a very rudimentary mechanical tail mix mechanism which was quite a hit and miss affair. Eventually I managed to hover my Heliboy, sort of managing to keep the pointy side facing forward.

When I got my first tail gyro< Ithought I was seriously styling!! It had a small electric motor in it spinning two brass flywheels that were mounted on a pivot with a potentiometer. I sort of worked okay, but I never got comfy with it.

I am glad to see that you are persevering with your flying Tony. It is no doubt a steep learning curve, but the satisfaction derived when you can hover out you first pack is priceless. You hang in there mate and remember that ALL of us were raw beginners at one stage.

If you have any questions, fire away.

Graham, if I understood correctly, Tony was referring to flying a flybarless heli without a FBL gyro?
 
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wolfman76

Well-Known Member
I did only very briefly when I had my exi 450 with dx5e airplane tx and I do mean briefly. . It requires a great deal of stick controls and constant corrections so I too would very much reccomend against it.. look on eBay for a k-bar fbl controller fairly inexpensive and is the clone to the vbar grom mikado
 
HK 450 5th flight (No gyro) - YouTube

You can but its like the heli has Parkinsons, not advisable:(

If he had sorted that tail out it would have been a good flight I think....

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I read about your unfortunate hypersonic headspeeds. If you have the heli attached to the lazy susan contraption, yeah, by all means give it a try. Untethered? No way in hell will I try that.

When I flew my first heli in 1981, there were no such things as gyros. The tail compensation was handled by a very rudimentary mechanical tail mix mechanism which was quite a hit and miss affair. Eventually I managed to hover my Heliboy, sort of managing to keep the pointy side facing forward.

When I got my first tail gyro< Ithought I was seriously styling!! It had a small electric motor in it spinning two brass flywheels that were mounted on a pivot with a potentiometer. I sort of worked okay, but I never got comfy with it.

I am glad to see that you are persevering with your flying Tony. It is no doubt a steep learning curve, but the satisfaction derived when you can hover out you first pack is priceless. You hang in there mate and remember that ALL of us were raw beginners at one stage.

If you have any questions, fire away.

Graham, if I understood correctly, Tony was referring to flying a flybarless heli without a FBL gyro?

I can fly the heli, I've got a few videos on YouTube showing both the Blade FB and the converted one I have now...

Yes Graham, Dirk, I want to fly my FBL without a gyro..

I'm only going to put it on the lazy Susan to set the tail up, then off to the field tomorrow I think... It's destroyed itself twice up to now.... Well it's my turn....lol

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I did only very briefly when I had my exi 450 with dx5e airplane tx and I do mean briefly. . It requires a great deal of stick controls and constant corrections so I too would very much reccomend against it.. look on eBay for a k-bar fbl controller fairly inexpensive and is the clone to the vbar grom mikado

Hey Kyle, I've seen a few videos about that Kbar, it looks pretty good for the money, WC(Tom) on YouTube skyped me about it this morning...
 

Derek

Well-Known Member
I've seen 1 video on youtube where a guy flew a 3 blades 450 without a flybarless gyro. I just can't see risking my helicopter like that.
 
I've seen 1 video on youtube where a guy flew a 3 blades 450 without a flybarless gyro. I just can't see risking my helicopter like that.

Yeah but Derek my blade has been missing those catastrophic crashes now for ages, it's just sitting on this table begging for more.... Hahaha...

I've got it all setup ready, except for the damm blade pitch.. I forgot it needs a new feathering shaft.... Their coming from hong kong..... Tail is locked in though on my lazy Susan.
 

Derek

Well-Known Member
I completely understand your eagerness, I really do. If it were me, I wouldn't fly without the gryo.
 

treff

Active Member
Yes you can fly a helicopter without a gyro. Most old fellas and gals for that matter who flew helis in the day flew without gyros.
That's what made it so bloody hard. With technology today all you young guns have it easy lol. Still, you have more money to spend
on spares and crashes lol
 
:voidh:

Okay, let's see.

In the meantime: :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Haha, ohh I'll video it definitely, we all need a laugh now and again. Waiting on feathering shafts. Then it's off to the field..

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Yes you can fly a helicopter without a gyro. Most old fellas and gals for that matter who flew helis in the day flew without gyros.
That's what made it so bloody hard. With technology today all you young guns have it easy lol. Still, you have more money to spend
on spares and crashes lol

You won't know what it's like unless you try it Treff... :smile::smile:
 

pvolcko

Well-Known Member
If you do decide to try this in the field: Setup a tail mix. Ideally you'd want it mixing against collective and cyclic, but definitely get at least a collective pitch to tail mix set up. This will help keep the tail closer based on your throttle/collective stick moves. Every little thr/collective change will induce a different torque situation. A tail mix will help fight it, but you'll still have to be all over your rudder corrections to keep it from creeping all around on you. The tail mix will basically dial in tail pitch to counteract static torque at a given thr/col stick position. What it will not counteract too effectively is dyanamic torque changes when things are stabilizing to a new thr/col stick position setting. It will also do nothing for wind effects or small torque effects of the small cyclic changes you're making all the time to maintain hover position.

Do this on a no wind day.

Try to keep thr/col in a steady position, move it around as little as possible. Use as little cyclic as possible to keep position. Let it drift more than normal and use longer holds at the small cyclic moves to get it back.

If you have a flybar hopefully that will help keep the cyclic under control in hover. If you're trying this on an FBL heli with no FBL and no gyro... good luck to you. :)
 
If you do decide to try this in the field: Setup a tail mix. Ideally you'd want it mixing against collective and cyclic, but definitely get at least a collective pitch to tail mix set up. This will help keep the tail closer based on your throttle/collective stick moves. Every little thr/collective change will induce a different torque situation. A tail mix will help fight it, but you'll still have to be all over your rudder corrections to keep it from creeping all around on you. The tail mix will basically dial in tail pitch to counteract static torque at a given thr/col stick position. What it will not counteract too effectively is dyanamic torque changes when things are stabilizing to a new thr/col stick position setting. It will also do nothing for wind effects or small torque effects of the small cyclic changes you're making all the time to maintain hover position.

Do this on a no wind day.

Try to keep thr/col in a steady position, move it around as little as possible. Use as little cyclic as possible to keep position. Let it drift more than normal and use longer holds at the small cyclic moves to get it back.

If you have a flybar hopefully that will help keep the cyclic under control in hover. If you're trying this on an FBL heli with no FBL and no gyro... good luck to you. :)

Hey Paul, that's a lot of excellent information, to be honest I've no idea how to mix tail/collective, I've only got a dx6i, not sure I've seen that in the settings...

Yes it's a fbl 450 blade conversion...

When I've tried this and inevitably crashed...lol, I'll be repairing it AGAIN, and putting the Kbar fbl gyro on it.

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I'm still gonna frown on this idea, Tony! Just be safe!!!

Derek, I really appreciate your concern for my safety, and understand fully mate, rest assured I will have a great deal of space to myself, and I'll be standing WELL clear, I will also be using a tripod for one camera and my head mount for the möbius...I am fully aware what this heli is capable of in the way of damaging things, you've seen my last 2 disasters, well that wasn't me....lol... I'm going to keep the head speed as low as possible to get me airborne...
 
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Tony

Staff member
I can't believe you are actually doing to do this. These things are hard enough to fly with a 3 axis gyro. There is NO stability if you don't have a gyro. It will wonder all over the place, be very twitchy and quite dangerous. But it's your helicopter. You are waiting on parts now, I just hope you ordered extras lol.

With that said, a situation like this is where REVO Mix comes into play. I have NEVER done a video on REVO and I won't because everyone should be running HH. But, lets just say, revo mix will mix in some rudder when you apply throttle to keep the tail from kicking out.
 

Derek

Well-Known Member
Well, first and foremost, I am concerned about your safety but I'm also concerned about your check book. What happens when the helicopter spools up...get's about a foot off the ground and just super-slams into the ground because it needed a correction that the gyro would have caught before you even knew what happened? That's just more money that you'll have to spend to repair it. Not only would it be tore up blades, main gear, main and feathering shafts, but it could be frame pieces and more.

Personally, I wouldn't do it.

So...I'm gonna stop acting like your Dad, lol. It's your helicopter. I just hope that everything goes well and safely.
 
I can't believe you are actually doing to do this. These things are hard enough to fly with a 3 axis gyro. There is NO stability if you don't have a gyro. It will wonder all over the place, be very twitchy and quite dangerous. But it's your helicopter. You are waiting on parts now, I just hope you ordered extras lol.

With that said, a situation like this is where REVO Mix comes into play. I have NEVER done a video on REVO and I won't because everyone should be running HH. But, lets just say, revo mix will mix in some rudder when you apply throttle to keep the tail from kicking out.

now thats interesting on REVO mix, ill look on youtube. thanks Tony, yes ive ordered plenty of parts, there cheap enough... and ive ordered a Kbar gyro for afterwards...lol

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Well, first and foremost, I am concerned about your safety but I'm also concerned about your check book. What happens when the helicopter spools up...get's about a foot off the ground and just super-slams into the ground because it needed a correction that the gyro would have caught before you even knew what happened? That's just more money that you'll have to spend to repair it. Not only would it be tore up blades, main gear, main and feathering shafts, but it could be frame pieces and more.

Personally, I wouldn't do it.

So...I'm gonna stop acting like your Dad, lol. It's your helicopter. I just hope that everything goes well and safely.

haha, act like my Dad.... im probably old enough to be YOURS...lol

anyway, money isnt an issue really, these blade parts are cheap as chips (so they say in UK). ive already ordered 4 sets of blades, 4 feathering shafts, ive got 2 main gears spare...3 sets of servo gears....loads of spares man...lol

ive set my mind up now, i need to try this and i realise its probably going to get off the ground and maybe SLAM back into it.... deja vu eh... been there...it just might hover OK, who knows.... ive spent hours on the mechanical side, new link arms balls etc etc. swash leveling, tail is pretty locked in (without cyclic input). now i know about this ill sort that out too..

lets face it its going to be an interesting video...lol

ohhh ive just tried my mobius camera on the horizontal tail fin, spun it up on the lazy susan and it looks pretty good actually, so on the day thats where the mobius is going...
 
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Derek

Well-Known Member
Well, I'm 38 years old, so you might be old enough to be my Dad, lol.

And it's quite obvious that we can't talk you out of this decision of yours so I might as well support you, lol. I hope it works for ya.

As far as the Mobius on the tail boom, just be sure to check and recheck your CG because that added weight on the tail will make the helicopter tail heavy. Also, be aware of a possible "blade strike". Keep the Mobius out of harms way on the tail.

I wish ya luck with this!!!
 
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