450 X3 Throttle Curve (No Governor)

Wondering what people are using for throttle curves on their X3's.

After i received mine i basically had to rebuild it. Slop in the main shaft, servo stripped out, thrust bearings in backwards, etc. I finally got it back together and setup correctly. Im running the Brain and didnt use the governor. What throttle curves can be used for mild 3D


Edit, i decided to enable the governor, see post below
 
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D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
Rodney and Smoggie talk me into running my Gov. on all 3 of my birds . Big difference when you using the Gov. The Headspeed, to me, seems to stay nice and steady especially if your going to fly inverted . I use a straight curve, 75 stunt 1 and 85 stunt 2. Someone suggested those numbers to me but I can't remember who, Lol Rodney! do you know who? This is my :2c: Can I have change :waa:
 
Actually i just decided to setup the governor. 12 tooth pinion, stock main gear. Scorpion HKII-2221 motor. 6S battery

Whats 3 good headspeeds to use. I will primarily use stunt 1 and want to do basic 3D at a lower headspeed.

I currently have:
Stunt 1 @ 1850
Stunt 2 @ 1950
Stunt 3 @ 2050

MrMel's software to says run it at 3392, wtf. 2050 is overspeeding
 

Tony

Staff member
In order to run the gov on the IKON, you need to either have a compatible ESC to connect to it, or have (whatever that piece of electronics is called) to connect to it. IMO, get an ESC that has a governor and run on it if you want to run a governor. The one that is built in to the Ikon is made for a nitro bird, not electronic. If you would like to see that video, I have posted it below.

This video is how I set my governor up on my 600 Nitro.

Ikon Nitro Governor Setup Align 600 OS 55HZ H - YouTube
 

trainrider06

Active Member
I'm no expert for sure on head speeds governor or not, the critical factors though I know as Tony and Steve talk about is 1. Motor bogging, and motor over speed. Neither of those are friends of flights.
As Tony and others have said its best to use one of the esc's that are known to have a good governor setup, instead of the ones the FBL units provide. I know the gov setup on the AR7200BX is said to be decent....for the fuel heli's, as well the Ikon as Tony stated. As well Steve and a few others I have heard recommend or have experience running gov with different esc's and also know through experience how their heli's have performed with different esc's. So I trust their words on it. I know just from listening and trying the Hobby Wing Platinum Pro series esc's provide an excellent regulated governor and head speed on my heli's. They fly so much more smoother and predictable. The head speed of any heli and ability to do mild to wild 3D of course depends on blade pitch setup's (-12 to +12 or more) and head speed of the given motor. I've seen guys with very low head speed doing 3D (abet a slower version of 3D) but doing most of the manuvers still.
I'd reckon if your caculated head speed is reaching too far with your pinion combination, then that would be the change that's needed to get you within your target safe speed, either 1 up or down possibly 2 either way. I have a pretty dependable app on my phone that caculates your head speed by sound. All you do is hover the heli at your given flight mode, idol 0 1 or 2 and it caculates and gives you a reading of your head speed. Works pretty good! It's called helitach. From my understanding of motor/ESC combinations and 3D whatever the head speed is lower or higher, when say you flip one upside down its not really the head speed so much as the blade pitch, and power of the motor under loads and ability of whatever ESC to continually deliver that same power as well the motor to continue rotating at said RPM. If the motor/ESC combination is weak in one area or the other then you'll bog it, loosing power loosing RPM, and if said ESC is not powerful enough it won't provide the needed juice to the motor. It's like having a big block motor built with all the muscle it can be and then putting a 2 barrel carberator on it, then trying to stomp the gas! That engine will bog demanding more fuel!
By not having the correct head speed it's like taking a car past red line.
On the heli it's going to again demand too much from the motor ESC more than likely heat things up very hot, and your motor or ESC will fail.
So it sounds like your going to have to either back your throttle curves down a bit or re pinion it to which ever pinion will lower your head speed. The governor itself isn't going to remedy that situation, it's only going to regulate RPM's in the parameter of RPM's it's given....if those are too high, the governor doesn't care, it only goes by what you provide in the RPM range. If it's too high, it'll just run in the over speed area a the set RPM's you provide with throttle curves or motor pinion choices...
 

Smoggie

Well-Known Member
I currently have:
Stunt 1 @ 1850
Stunt 2 @ 1950
Stunt 3 @ 2050

MrMel's software to says run it at 3392, wtf. 2050 is overspeeding

Your head speeds are too low for a 450. If you want to fly 3D then you would want to be up around 3000RPM. For sport flying a bit less but not much less. 2000 RPM is more like what you would use on a 700 size heli.

I cant help with the iKon governor, i always use the ESC governor purely for simplicity.
 
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Thanks for tbe feedback, all of it is useful. I may pickup that HW.

I used the Brain software and the rpm sensor from the castle 50 and was able to calibrate min and max rpm. Max rpm was about 1850 and that thing was overspeeding.
 

Tony

Staff member
1850 is not over speeding for an X3. As Steve stated, run it closer to 3000. On a 450, I run a max head speed of about 3500 if pushing it hard, but normally I'm right at about 2800. I NEVER go below 2500.
 

Smoggie

Well-Known Member
There are lots of settings that might lead to inaccurate RPM, the pole count of the motor is one variable, plus of course the gearing. I've never used the iKon gov so cant be much help, sorry.

The Castle ESC has a decent governor but you would need the Castle Link dongle to set it.
 

trainrider06

Active Member
If I remember correctly on my 450L my RPM's were around 2700-2750 in idol 1. I think it's running an 11 tooth gear. Hafta count that to be sure though. I will try and get a reading today using this app and see what I'm running on my 450 Pro.
 

murankar

Staff member
Actually i just decided to setup the governor. 12 tooth pinion, stock main gear. Scorpion HKII-2221 motor. 6S battery

Whats 3 good headspeeds to use. I will primarily use stunt 1 and want to do basic 3D at a lower headspeed.

I currently have:
Stunt 1 @ 1850
Stunt 2 @ 1950
Stunt 3 @ 2050

MrMel's software to says run it at 3392, wtf. 2050 is overspeeding


You do know that the 2221 series Scorpions are rated for 3S packs right? If not well now you know. That motor might and I mean might be able to run on 4s but I would not try it. Now as for head speeds: THis kit is designed for 3500ish head speed. I run no lower than 2600 un loaded. If you can get the X3 with that HK 2221 and 6S battery off the ground at 1850 we need video or I call BS on it.

Sorry but I have been flying this kit since it was released and have had it on 3S the whole time. My first motor on it was the 2221-8 on 3S pulse packs. That setup on 360s will kill your packs quickly. The motor will just pull a shload of power the whole time thus beating the hell out of the packs. Not saying it cant be done because I have. Just know its not Ideal to run 360s on the 2221 series motors. What you need is the 6S HK 2520 for that kit.

Over speeding is running the motor faster than it should. You would have to regear the X3 to run a 3S motor on a 6S pack.
 
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You'll like that motor. It runs cooler then the Scorpion does. That's whats on my X3 with 12T motor pinion.

The XNova has CRAZY power. At first the hs was overspeeding, was wicked sounding then we dialed it down. The battery went from 96% to 56% in less then 90 seconds! I had another guy fly it while I filmed him, here's a REAL short video of it after taming it down.

20160907 143007 - YouTube

- - - Updated - - -

I may bring the head speed down a bit more after listening to that video. That guy flys pretty hard
 

murankar

Staff member
What I did not know is that the 2221 series had a 6s version. When I got my 2221_8 back in 2012 there was no 6s version.

The X3 will still fly way better with a 2520 instead.
 

D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
I'm not sure what flight time you are getting out of your X3 but I can only get 4 1/2 mins. flight time with my set up. They say 3 to 4 mins 3D flying. I guess I'm in the ball park.
 
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