Projects Turbine Helicopter - Pure curiousity...... for now

[corsair_pilot]

I'm just curious, been thinking about a turbine powered helicopter, and was just watching a few you tube videos.
It got me thinking, how do that actually use the turbine to get the shaft spinning?
The kits I've seen give nothing away. Can't work out if there is some sort of pulley/friction system with the shaft off the turbine, or if there is a wind vane type of thing.
Purely curious, just wanting to know how it works.....

 

[Tony]

The shaft that is sticking up in teh helicopter is where you would mount the stock clutch.

 

[corsair_pilot]

It's the internals of that clutch that I'd like to see though.
I just think they are awesome units

 

[Tony]

It's just the stock clutch setup for the heli. You have the fan mount that mounts to that shaft, then the fan, then the metal clutch which goes into the clutch bell and the pinion screws onto the clutch bell. Pretty simple setup.

 

[corsair_pilot]

Ok I mean you have the turbine, you have the two exhaust ports on the picture you showed me, but then yo have that housing the shaft pops up from.
I understand the normal clutch on the shaft of the helicopter. It's what's in the housing that you can't see that i'm curious about.

 

[Tony]

Ah, I'm pretty sure that is just a ring and pinion for gear reduction. Couldn't find any pictures of it opened up though.

 

[corsair_pilot]

I have been the same. haven't been able to find an exploded diagram or anything.
I do have the same thought you do though.
the mechanics of it all were intriguing me.
the longer I thought about it, the more I started to work it out.
One day it may happen

 

[Tony]

DO IT!!!!!

 

[corsair_pilot]

Hahaha If money and licensing weren't an issue I'd be all over it.
Catching up with a mate next week though and we're going to be talking about making some things.
talk to him about making moulds for scale fuselages etc.... so you never know.... I may have one soon enough

 

[Dirk]

I can explain how the inner workings work. The front part is just a normal turbine as used on jets. Inside the rear casing is a second turbine, but it is not connected to the main turbine in the engine. The second turbine is purely driven by exhaust gases coming out of the engine. It works the same as a torque converter on an auto transmission.
Put two fans face to face and switch only one on. The second one will start spinning due to the airflow going through it. The first fan is your normal turbine (Gas generator), while the second fan is the second turbine (Power turbine) coupled to a pinion and clutch. (The part that sticks up )

There is no mechanical connection between the two turbines at all. It works exactly the same as a full size heli turbine engine.

If you ever get the chance to peek inside a Jet Ranger ( Or most turbine powered helicopters), you will see two gauges. One is called the "Gas generator", which is the normal turbine (Jet engine) It's main purpose is to generate gas flow (Jet exhaust) which is then used to drive the second turbine ( Power turbine), which is the one coupled to the gearbox to drive the rotor head and the tail rotor.

My ultimate dream is also to own a turbine powered heli! Well, hopefully someone will make a turbine small enough to fit inside my 450!

 

[Westy]

Hobby King are onto that project!!!!!!

I think you will find the gearbox is a Planetary gear system that is a massive reduction as the speeds of the turbine will, depending on its size spin at between 10,000RPM and 500,000RPM the smaller the faster they will spin due to less /inertia / centrifugal force.....

I see Pratt and Whitney are working on a Variable speed Turbine system to allow hovering at altitudes of 10,000Feet .... and cruise heights of 25,000

 

[Tony]

I would not trust a cheap POS Turbine engine that HK sells. If you can't trust their helicopters, how can you trust something that could, LITERALLY, blow up in your face? You get what you pay for.

 

[corsair_pilot]

I wouldn't trust hk either for that.
Have found a few good suppliers that I can get the turbines from if I go down that track. Also ones completely ready to install into a helicopter.
So yeah there is a good chance it will happen down the track

 

[tommyboy660]

Hey corsair_pilot you mention licensing? what kind of licensing do you need to have to fly or own a turbine heli. I have been seeing a few turbines up for sale on ebay for both helis and planes but obviously they arent small by any means. I almost went in on the bidding for one but i dont know what else it would entail i need to buy to get a full working heli other than the obvious of frame and a few electronics but deffinately wouldve been a long project of learning as i went but i guess it wouldve been fun. Im the kind of person that learns hands-on not out of a book or by being told how to do something, i have to have something to look at then figure it out on my own as well as ask a few questions as i go. Check out ebay if your interested in turbines for relatively cheap cuz alot of people that do them buy them at full price to just find out that they are way over there head in itso they have to get rid of it for alot cheaper.

 

[wolfman76]

here you go jonathan i think you might want this
Turbine RC Helicopters Exploring The Ultimate in Power of The RC Pilot | eBay
they only have one left and it is close by me champaine ill it is a 90 minute dvd....
and in order to operate a turbine powered heli or jet you have to get a special waiver through the ama in us not sure how it is in other countries but i am sure it is same though seeing as ama hold jet nationals that have pilots from all around the world... if i could get that dvd i would make a copy of it and send to youi have software to do that not for sale since that is what is illegal but just to share between friends...

 

[corsair_pilot]

that's not a bad dvd. I actually have a book I need to find and unpack here that entails how to actually make a turbine engine from scratch!!
I don't have the means at the moment, but the reading is very interesting. This guy then put it into a plane.
If can find the guys name, and the planes details I'll let you know. He has the details on youtube
there are some pretty cool stuff.
Hey Tommyboy, I know here in Aus, technically you need a "licence" and belong to a club to fly your planes/helicopters. Then if you're going to get into turbines you need to get permission from the governing body, and pass other tests to be legally able to fly. Most of it is to cover your butt should bad luck happen

 

[tommyboy660]

Oh wow thats interesting. Build a turbine from scratch? Now that is something I wouldnt want to get into because first of all like stated above they are running around 10000 to 500000 rpm so the tolerances on everything must be perfect so that means precision equiptment and professional knowledge only gotten from years of experience not neccessarily an overnight read, take all of that into account and I thibk you'd be better off price wise to just purchase one already built cuz I just looked on ebay and there is one going for $2,000 for rc helis right now not exactly how small it is but it says its for a rc heli check it out. Or a really good option would be to go with the kit route like Bergen I believe it is that has turbine kit helis. Thst way you know it will all work and have a resource to fall back on while assembling and flight.

Believe they end up costing somewhere around $5-$6k after its all done which in the turbine world is about average but that is extremely high in the rc heli world imo. But if your extremely into video or photography from above you cannot beat a turbine because the vibration is basically non existant cuz of high rpm and the sound is unbeatably amazing in those things.

 

[corsair_pilot]

Until the onset of the current crop of rc turbines, the worlds smallest turbine was made using the turbo out of a Daihatsu Charade!
The making your own turbine isn't using hand made parts (plus I do have access to cnc machine if needed). But using some easy to find parts it's not excessively hard to make.
I'm not pretending it's easy either. The correct bearings will take care of the rpm and the heat generated by the speed.
the precision of a turbine engine doesn't come from the the moving parts, but actually from the non moving parts like the casing around the turbine. Making sure you have the spacing right, and the fuel chamber the right size for your blades, and the inlets correct etc.
From what I remember the guy uses the fan out of a vacum cleaner for the blades of the turbine. he did hand roll the casing... but I can't remember it at the moment.... I will find the book and let you guys know

 

[Ken Jackson]

I can explain how the inner workings work. The front part is just a normal turbine as used on jets. Inside the rear casing is a second turbine, but it is not connected to the main turbine in the engine. The second turbine is purely driven by exhaust gases coming out of the engine. It works the same as a torque converter on an auto transmission.
Put two fans face to face and switch only one on. The second one will start spinning due to the airflow going through it. The first fan is your normal turbine (Gas generator), while the second fan is the second turbine (Power turbine) coupled to a pinion and clutch. (The part that sticks up )

There is no mechanical connection between the two turbines at all. It works exactly the same as a full size heli turbine engine.

If you ever get the chance to peek inside a Jet Ranger ( Or most turbine powered helicopters), you will see two gauges. One is called the "Gas generator", which is the normal turbine (Jet engine) It's main purpose is to generate gas flow (Jet exhaust) which is then used to drive the second turbine ( Power turbine), which is the one coupled to the gearbox to drive the rotor head and the tail rotor.

My ultimate dream is also to own a turbine powered heli! Well, hopefully someone will make a turbine small enough to fit inside my 450!

Good description. I haven't seen one but everything you said makes sense!

Ken

 

[Graham Lawrie]

I have been the same. haven't been able to find an exploded diagram or anything.
I do have the same thought you do though.
the mechanics of it all were intriguing me.
the longer I thought about it, the more I started to work it out.
One day it may happen

Here guys