General torchy

[torchy]

hi all

being a new member & not been flying long i have a problem which i cannot see how to put right.I have an align dominator 450L & at the moment as i spool up the speed gets to a stage where the heli tips over to the right.I have set up everything as shown & the blades are are in line & balanced.Is the problem due to the heli or is it in the transmitter.Living on the Isle of Skye in Scotland cannot find anyone to help & so am getting very frustrated as when i had finished building the model the shop that sold it to me in the south of the country checked the set up & it flew fantastic.Wonder if anyone has had the same problem?Grateful for any help.

 

[Tony]

Are you running the 3GX by chance? And if so, are you on the 3.1 firmware?

Went ahead and moved this to the helicopter section.

 

[holtneil]

HI mate as Tony said the 3GX can do this , when you set up and leveled the swash did you make sure it level at zero/mid/and full throttle ,What transmitter do you have

 

[torchy]

hi

when i levelled the swash i levelled it at midpoint zero deg & then full throttle was set at 10deg & zero throttle checked to see it matched the full throttle setting.Transmitter i have is a spektrum DX7S.At the moment it tips over on the LHS.

 

[Tony]

Even the slightest blade touch will bend the main and/or feathering shafts. I would highly suggest checking those. Especially if it didn't do this before and was stable.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi torchy, I had a similar problem with my Blade450X but it was tipping to the right. I traced it to having set my radio to 3 servos and the AR7200BX also being set for the same. Now I never put a setting in the radio, which is incorporated in the gyro to avoid conflict between the two. I forgot about that aspect when I went through the radio settings, fortunately no damage other than one blade. The pair are now my shortened blades for setting up pitch. I never work on my helis with the normal main blades fitted and the motor connected unless it absolutely must be for a test. SAFETY FIRST! It makes sense.

Good luck.

 

[torchy]

Hi phil

thanks for that, i've followed instructions for the setting up the 3GX on the radio as they say, my 450L is flybarless & has a new main shaft.One thing somebody mentioned was it might have to much negative pitch on it, so what i was going to do was set min throttle to -3deg & centre to +5deg with full throttle to +7deg, don't know whether it will make any difference this should be okay for hovering.Can only try.Something somebody else said was, it had a lazy servo or the swash plate is moving in the opposite way.Got to try that.Hope i haven't bored you.

torchy

 

[Tony]

What about the feathering shaft? Trust me, the 3GX hates vibration and will not cooperate if there is anything wrong with the head.

IMO, don't change your pitch settings to what you say. Negative pitch will NOT affect this helicopter in the way it's having issues. I suggest everyone run a pitch curve of 46 48 50 75 100 with mid stick at 0º pitch and full stick at +10º pitch. This will only give you about 3º of negative pitch at low stick. Enough to keep it on the ground when you land it in some cross wind.

 

[Slobberdog]

do you have any end point adjustment (travel adjust) set in any of the cyclic servos Pitch Aileron or Elevator, this will cause this issue, and don't ask me how I know,

 

[Heliman450]

Hi phil

thanks for that, i've followed instructions for the setting up the 3GX on the radio as they say, my 450L is flybarless & has a new main shaft.One thing somebody mentioned was it might have to much negative pitch on it, so what i was going to do was set min throttle to -3deg & centre to +5deg with full throttle to +7deg, don't know whether it will make any difference this should be okay for hovering.Can only try.Something somebody else said was, it had a lazy servo or the swash plate is moving in the opposite way.Got to try that.Hope i haven't bored you.

torchy

Hi torchy, no such thing as boring when it comes to all things to do with helis You don't mention if you've had a crash, could always be that you missed something. Have a really good look at it, I found a slightly bent tail boom, which I didn't notice first time round.

I've done some testing using the 450X and my simulator. Tony's figures are almost spot on for me, I don't go as high as 100% for the full stick yet to restrict the height I hover at to around head height maximum. As I progress, I'll gradually increase the max. figure.

Are you doing the pre-flight checks properly? With your motor disconnected and the main rotor blades removed, go through all the stick movements to make sure everything is smooth and going in the right direction. I was just preparing my flybar heli (Beam E4) to start flying it again. Everything went perfectly on the bench, when I checked out my settings on the simulator the throttle was stuck at 100%. I didn't manage to find what caused it to do that, I just reset the model in the radio and reprogrammed the settings. It disappeared without me finding out what was causing the problem, a bit frustrating, but sometimes you have to just start all over again. Don't rush off to test the heli until you're 100% convinced it's ready to go. Better to spend extra time scratching your head and writing to us here than picking up broken bits!

Good luck!

- - - Updated - - -

What about the feathering shaft? Trust me, the 3GX hates vibration and will not cooperate if there is anything wrong with the head.

IMO, don't change your pitch settings to what you say. Negative pitch will NOT affect this helicopter in the way it's having issues. I suggest everyone run a pitch curve of 46 48 50 75 100 with mid stick at 0º pitch and full stick at +10º pitch. This will only give you about 3º of negative pitch at low stick. Enough to keep it on the ground when you land it in some cross wind.

Hi torchy, picking up on Tony's point with the feathering shaft, have you renewed the dampners and tightened up the shaft properly. It can be very easy to not locate them properly and end up with the shaft loose after running up the heli. It's a good idea to always check this first thing after a re-build and first run along with all screws etc. just to make sure everything stays nice and tight.

 

[Slobberdog]

if you can post up a video of the swash moving and how the heli behaves that would be good for us to help you better.

as I said above though check that first,

 

[Lee]

Hi phil

thanks for that, i've followed instructions for the setting up the 3GX on the radio as they say, my 450L is flybarless & has a new main shaft.One thing somebody mentioned was it might have to much negative pitch on it, so what i was going to do was set min throttle to -3deg & centre to +5deg with full throttle to +7deg, don't know whether it will make any difference this should be okay for hovering.Can only try.Something somebody else said was, it had a lazy servo or the swash plate is moving in the opposite way.Got to try that.Hope i haven't bored you.

torchy

I would suggest to always keep mid stick as 0º pitch, otherwise, you may ave problems down the line as you progress.
LS -3º, MS 0º, HS 7º would work, if you want.

As for you problem. All I ever hear is issue after issue with the 3GX.
Do yourself a favour, and get a BeastX, Ikon or Spartan, or even the newer Align GPro if you want to stay with Align.
You can pick them up second hand in the forums, if cost is an issue.
So much easier to set up, flight characteristics, less stress

 

[holtneil]

HI mate I do agree with Lee get rid of the 3GX , I binned both of mine and fitted Kbars they are cheap easy to set up a super stable , When i asked about swashed level use a leveler to make sure the swash stays level in all its travel from zero to full throttle , Re- check the feathering shaft , even a small blade strike will bend the shaft , if you put a allan driver in one end and turn it if the grip moves at all its bent Like Tony said this will upset the 3GX , also re-check the gyro is moving the swash the right way to keep it level if this is wrong the heli will tip faster then you can hit throttle hold

 

[Heliman450]

Hi torchy (the Battery Boy, right?), lots of good advice coming your way, hope you're able to track down the problem. One thing I've noticed on the Forum is that some guys ask for help based on a very simple question and promptly leave never to return. Great to be in touch with someone coming back to collect all the constructive feedback. Don't forget to tell us what you found and how you resolved the trouble. Like me, I'm sure others want to hear about a problem solved.

Up to now, I haven't advised anyone to change to a particular gyro etc. I just don't have the experience to rubbish a product that someone took time to develop and, presumably, test. That's the benefit of the Forum, guys with loads of experience ready and willing to offer their view on stuff.

Be careful not to get stuck doing things piecemeal when you may still be missing the real cause of a problem. I've learned to stop as soon as I'm getting frustrated and if necessary go right back to the start and run through everything again. I enjoy the experience and each time improves my ability to do things from my head rather than having to look things up or ask someone else. I do have the benefit of spending almost unlimited time at the hobby now that I'm retired.

Bye for now.

 

[Slobberdog]

Torchy

Theres a fair bit of advice in this thread, this was my mistake when I set up my 500 Dfc and resulted in my maiden lasting all of 10 seconds, doh blade strike and broken blades,

[video=youtube_share;lUkGPj-12E8]https://youtu.be/lUkGPj-12E8[/video]

as far as the 3gx is concerned I liked them at first but had one fail in flight and never trusted them after, I have had the Micro beast controller the Kbar the Ikon or Brain whatever you want to call it and the Vortex, out of them all the 3gx setup is the worst and tuning is next to impossible if your not a competent pilot who understands the terminology and options well,

I had the 3gx on all my Trex's and on my 250 I could never get the tail to work properly switched to Vortex Vx1n and the 250 flew better than my 500 on 3gx, and more stable to boot. My 500 now has the Vx1e on it and flies beautifully,

Its all about how you want the heli to fly, feel and the ease to set up,

my advice ensure the setup (mechanical is perfect) Level swash no vibes etc, now I might be mistaken but I don't recall anyone saying to check your blades for balance, this is very important!

then check what I have mentioned in previous posts regarding the travel adjust, that's what caught me out, and ensure all your pitch and throttle curves are set up well, and you have no mixes set up in your TX,

then remove both your sets of blades main and tail and spool the heli to hover point and see if you can see any vibes, if no vibes you can rule out the drive train and then concentrate on the blades and gyro set up,

hope this helps.

Kev

 

[holtneil]

Hi Kev my second 3GX did that too I binned it I didnt even try and fly on it , both my £1200 500 scale Cobra has a Kbar and my 500 pro dfc has a Kbar , they are super stable ,super easy to set up ,I am willing to say they are one of the best clone gyro on the market to day I have flown and tested lots and all are in boxes after I tested the Kbar , I trust the Kbar thats why I have it in my Cobra this is how stable they are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLFvC3Iu6Bw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X91d71qLbAo
and how bad the 3GX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvqXy5PA40k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br3QLCiABCw

 

[Slobberdog]

The Kbar was a very good gyro, especially as you say it's a clone, but I would suggest not going for one now just as I would not suggest the micro beast or beastx as they are all on dead firmware, none will be updated any further than they are now,

Personally I like Spartan as thier constant development and customer focus is second to none, MSH are developing but updates are sketchy at best normally,

 

[holtneil]

Hi Slodderdog the new kbar is on 5.4pro is that not the newest i was going to get one

 

[Slobberdog]

That is the latest and last firmware, but as it is a rip off of vistabi firmware for the vbar and the vbar has been replaced with the neo it's not going to move from 5.4.3.

Anyway enough thread jacking here I think,

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Slodderdog the new kbar is on 5.4pro is that not the newest i was going to get one

Hi hotneil, I think what Slobberdog's saying is that there will be no more updates to the firmware so that when one downloads the latest that's it. I'm not sure if that really makes any difference as I asked on the Forum what is gained by an update of firmware for my AR7200BX and someone came back saying it's not clear what one gains with updates.

Sounds like if you've got one and it's working, no problem. If you're buying a new gyro as torchy may be doing, then go for the best possible option and run with that.

Having followed the thread with great interest I'd say if anybody's 3GX shows any problem then bin it ASAP! I'm thinking about what my next heli will be and what electronics to install and it looks like I'll probably go for a Bavarian Demon gyro and Bert Kamerer servos.

Bye now,