Tony's Challenge

[Heliman450]

Hi all, I managed to get to the field and spend some time producing a video for scrutiny. Yes I know the challenge has timed out but it seems to fit well with my current practise sessions.

It proved a bit difficult to settle the hovering at the extremes (the slabs are 0.5m square - total 6m x 6m) and the long grass needed flattening a bit before achieving it. See what you think.

[video=youtube_share;55ey_Vs1eZ4]https://youtu.be/55ey_Vs1eZ4[/video]

 

[Tony]

That is fantastic control! One thing though, if you stay 5' or higher (or right about 2m) you will get out of that ground effect and it will be much more stable. I think we are going to use this little practice to kind of get everyone into the mood of the challenges before we put up another one. I might just shoot it with my nitro when I get it running right. Maybe lol. But fantastic flight for sure!

 

[trainrider06]

Not bad at all Phil, you know if you get outta those ground effects it'll be even more smoother.
But that's pretty nice right there too!

 

[Heliman450]

Not bad at all Phil, you know if you get outta those ground effects it'll be even more smoother.
But that's pretty nice right there too!

Hi Rodney, thanks for the quick feedback. I expected to have the turbulence on the perimeter of the square but wanted to keep it low, hence, the basic target of 1m. If I could do inverted then I'd have given the grass a trim first LoL!

In addition, I find hovering above eye level a bit difficult at the moment but I'm sure with more practise that will disappear. Off to do some battery charging ready for the next session.

P.S. My new ESC hasn't turned up yet, maybe tomorrow?

- - - Updated - - -

That is fantastic control! One thing though, if you stay 5' or higher (or right about 2m) you will get out of that ground effect and it will be much more stable. I think we are going to use this little practice to kind of get everyone into the mood of the challenges before we put up another one. I might just shoot it with my nitro when I get it running right. Maybe lol. But fantastic flight for sure!

Hi Tony, thanks for the positive comments. It really helps!

I was testing some settings to see how it performed and didn't want it to go much higher than about 1m and also used quite a high minimum value on the pitch curve so that it floated down, hence, the rather poor landing. Almost eight minutes of low-level hovering is actually quite tiring for an old guy like me

 

[trainrider06]

That's probably just big bird nerves there Phil... you'll get past that.

 

[Heliman450]

That's probably just big bird nerves there Phil... you'll get past that.

It's the same on the simulator, too. Maybe that's my next virtual challenge 'getting it up' (higher altitude I mean )

 

[D.O.G.]

Nice flying job their Phil . Glad to see that you had some time in the air. Yup, like Rodney said,"Big bird nerves" I still have them but not as bad. You will sloooooowly ween your shakes off as time goes on! Lol.

 

[Heliman450]

Nice flying job their Phil . Glad to see that you had some time in the air. Yup, like Rodney said,"Big bird nerves" I still have them but not as bad. You will sloooooowly ween your shakes off as time goes on! Lol.

Hi Ivan, actually I have more 'nerves' with my 450's as they just blew away with a gentle breeze. They are much more feeble when it comes to a light breeze. I much prefer the 550 as it's almost 5 times the weight. Much more stable.

Next stop a T-Rex 800 (if she who must be obeyed agrees). The 550 seems good at over 25kph so at over 5 kg the 800 should give me another level of stability in higher winds, that's my story anyway

 

[trainrider06]

As windy as it's been here my flights have been very limited! With my 450's it begins to get hairy past 10-15mph and the winds have been pretty much everyday I've had the chance to fly 20-30mph...

 

[Smoggie]

Super stable flying Phil, it looks to be dialed in really well. Have you got the new ESC yet?
Is that using one of the Spirit's 'stabilisation' flight modes? If so then when it comes to an actual contest entry you would have to disable stabilisation.

Of course for unofficial flights like this one stabilisation perfectly ok... If indeed you were using it.

 

[Heliman450]

Super stable flying Phil, it looks to be dialed in really well. Have you got the new ESC yet?
Is that using one of the Spirit's 'stabilisation' flight modes? If so then when it comes to an actual contest entry you would have to disable stabilisation.

Of course for unofficial flights like this one stabilisation perfectly ok... If indeed you were using it.

Hi Steve, no the ESC hasn't turned up yet. I got the despatched notice just before our holiday weekend so I don't expect to see it before tomorrow at the earliest anyway.

Yes, the 'Normal Stabilisation' mode is activated. I doubt that I'll ever enter any real competitions so the point about 'the rules' is somewhat moot in my case . However, are you saying that no competitions allow for the stabilisation modes of the latest FBL gyros to be activated? If that's the case, then it seems a bit of a waste having FBL helis and manufacturers working to develop their products. It's a bit like saying that Formula 1 racing cars could be made faster with the latest technology but can only race with twin Weber carburettors

 

[Smoggie]

Phil,

That's right, as far as i know no competitions allow stabilisation systems. Also all the flying proficiency tests run by the likes of the AMA in the US and the BMFA here in the UK prohibit their use.

I guess it's potentially a controversial subject. With some of today's programmable, stabilised, GPS enabled systems you could quite easily program a heli to fly a basic proficiency test while you sat and drank a cup of coffee and read the newspaper. I'm guessing very soon the technology will be there so you could program a heli to fly an advanced 3D routine fully autonomously. I'm sure no one would consider that acceptable but at what point do you draw the line? The current rules are basically that FBL systems are allowed but they must only be of the type that directly replaces flybar functionality. Any form of artificial stabilising (self leveling), GPS positioning or such like is not permitted.

I dont think this limits FBL development in any way as most people dont fly in competitions. Plus 'self leveling' stabilisation would be counterproductive in most types of flying contest as it limits maneuverability.

F1 is quite a good analogy. They too have struggled with the question of what 'driver aids' should be allowed. I'm not sure what the current rules permit but for sure features like traction control, stability control, active suspension, auto launch control, auto gearboxes are (or have been at some time) banned. These aids are seen to dilute driver skill, to the point where the technology is doing most of the car control.

 

[Tony]

Flybarless controllers are allowed in the competitions, but things like self leveling and the like are not allowed since it makes the helicopter pretty much fly itself. The 3 axis gyro works the same way as a flybar in stabilizing the helicopter so without help from self leveling and such, the effect is about the same.

 

[trainrider06]

Well my 230s disguised as a 600 heli will fly below the radar I am sure! Uh maybe I shouldn't have said anything....

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Steve, I can understand a proficiency test not allowing the stabilised systems as the test is designed to challenge the individual to take control. That's a bit like driving with an automatic transmission, if the driver has the test in an automatic (in the UK) then they aren't qualified to drive a vehicle with manual transmission, makes sense.

I've heard a lot about the capabilities of GPS and was tempted to buy a drone to have the experience, however, drone pilots are about as popular as serial killers over here in Switzerland so I think I'll forego that experience. I doubt one could disappear into the bar for a couple of beers whilst your pre-programmed system did it all for you, but who knows what the not too distant future will bring.

Bye for now!

 

[Heliman450]

Flybarless controllers are allowed in the competitions, but things like self leveling and the like are not allowed since it makes the helicopter pretty much fly itself. The 3 axis gyro works the same way as a flybar in stabilizing the helicopter so without help from self leveling and such, the effect is about the same.

Hi Tony, I'm wondering if the rescue features are allowed. Seems a bit ridiculous to forbid them if it save the competitors from financial risk and possibly spectators from physical harm. Of course, I'm sure that could never happen (LoL), but just see the result of air shows where crashes have occurred, I'm sure those organisers also thought that to be the case. Maybe we're straying off topic now.

 

[Smoggie]

I doubt one could disappear into the bar for a couple of beers whilst your pre-programmed system did it all for you, but who knows what the not too distant future will bring.

You would be surprised. I don't fly anything with GPS but I've seen first hand a guy at the field program his quad using his smart phone. He basically pulled up a 'Google Maps' type interface on the phone and using the touch screen on the map image he selected the various way points around the field that he want to fly to. He then programed in the altitude that he wanted to be at corresponding to the various way point locations, entered loiter times at each location etc. He uploaded wirelessly the data to the quad's on-board controller and away the quad went, no further human intervention required.

This was just a pretty basic and low cost system from Hobbyking, nothing high end or 'fancy'.

 

[Smoggie]

PS.. Yes 'rescue' capability is allowed but you would be excluded from competition or fail a proficiency test if you actually had to activate it.

 

[Tony]

As steve said, if you get into a position where you need rescue mode, then by all means, use it. I'm not going to ask someone to crash their helicopter just to try a challenge. This is also the reason why I stated in the video to get more altitude than I had, just in case something went wrong, you have time to react. And it wouldn't exclude you from the competition, you would just have to start over. If you find yourself still having troubles at the same spot, then get up about 50 feet or so and try only that maneuver until you perfect it. These are supposed to be fun, but also push each person to try something they have not done before.

 

[Smoggie]

Yes, sorry, I had in mind 'formal' competitions where there are people watching and scoring the flight in real time when I said 'excluded'. For a video contest like Tony's if you got into trouble and had to use rescue you would just scratch that attempt and have another go... No one need ever know