THE Itch. OMG THE Itch!!!

zenmetsu

Member
Tony started this thread, likely in response to my blog.

My take is actually really simple; many have stated that the electronics in the Align kits are not necessarily the best. I have heard pretty good things about they gyros and motors, but I have heard my share of negatives surrounding the ESC and servos. I have read no fewer than a dozen accounts of the Trex 500 ESCs going up in smoke. This is likely not due to a defect of the ESC, but rather that it might be undersized. I have also heard that the servos strip gears easily in crashes.

Tony was nice enough to link me to a Trex 500 that was being sold without electronics. Had I not purchased the EXI kit already, I may have gone this route. Even then, you are paying a $200 price premium just to have the Align name and parts. If the clone parts are comparable in quality, and are interchangeable with the Align parts, then I see little reason to avoid going with the clone and replacing broken parts with Align ones when the inevitable happens.

Fact is, keeping an Align heli stock is going to mean keeping it a "clone" of just about every other Trex out there. Some people like to be different, some people will want better. If so, it would be pointless to pay the premium for electronics that you'll eventually want to replace unless you simply planned on selling the parts.

This brings up another point; I'd totally pay a $300 premium on a $600 kit if the parts were crafted by American workers... $400 if they were located in my own state of Arizona. But Align is Taiwanese, and I have to bite my tongue when it comes to Taiwanese craftsmanship. In all likelihood, the clones probably roll off the same assembly line as the Align parts.

Everyone has their own reasons for buying a particular brand. As long as the person knows the pros/cons of their choices, I think it is a bit disrespectful to challenge someone's reasoning.
 

Tony

Staff member
Actually your blog post did have something to do with me starting this thread. It got me looking at kits and what is out there again and putting the itch back under my skin.

As for quality, Align aluminum is stronger and their carbon fiber is much better than the clones. I studied the Align 450 Pro I had against the HK450Pro and the quality has a huge difference.

As for electronics, I love Align electronics. I have never had any issues with any of their servos and in a crash, it's expected to strip a servo or break a case. The gyros are perfect IMO and the ESC's are some of the best out there. If they are burning up, I would like to see where they had the timing set as this could be the cause.

However, with the 600 that I'm looking into above, all of the ESC talk will be out the window. We will just have to see what happens in the near future.
 

zenmetsu

Member
Exactly, and this is my point. You are running from personal experience. I have zero experience with HK, but my experience with EXI has been positive so far. I have compared their carbon fiber to Align's and it is indistinguishable. I haven't run into problems with stripping threading in their aluminum either. The ball finally jumped out of my swash, but seriously after 40+ hours in the air, I think that this is expected especially when flying in the dusty Arizona air.

To be honest, a few parts on the Align 250 kit are plastic whereas their counterparts on the EXI kit are aluminum. While I have no reservation with replacing the EXI parts with Align ones after crashes or wear and tear, replacing the aluminum parts with plastic did make me feel a bit... dirty.
 

Tony

Staff member
Tony started this thread, likely in response to my blog.

Everyone has their own reasons for buying a particular brand. As long as the person knows the pros/cons of their choices, I think it is a bit disrespectful to challenge someone's reasoning.

I would like to reply to this comment to clear something up. I may have it wrong, but I in no way ever meant any disrespect to anyone on their choices of what they want to fly. I will try to talk anyone into getting a name brand kit, but in the end, it's their money and their decision. Rc-Help is here to help EVERYONE to get into the air with WHATEVER they decide to build.

To me, it doesn't matter if a member has an HK450GT or the Align 450 Sport V2, I will help each and every one of them in the exact same manner.

I have a feeling the line below is exactly what brought on the thought that I was trying to look down on a clone.

There is a new blog about the newest 500 build. It's an EXI kit (I know, but just stick with me...) and it got me thinking.

This in no way was directed toward you zenmetsu and I do apologize if it seemed that way. What I meant by "I know, but stick with me" was what I have said in the past. If you read what I have went though with the clones, I have not had the greatest luck except with the HK450GT. That helicopter was great. Every other clone I have purchased has been a headache to say the least. This has persuaded me to only go with name brand kits from now on.

To summarize, I never meant any disrespect to anyone on this site, or that fly a clone helicopter. I will never knowingly disrespect someone because of their decisions on what kit or helicopter to get. I will always be here to help anyone and everyone with anything they need help with. I hope this helps clear some things up and again, I apologize if I have offended anyone.

By the way, I have reworded my first post.
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
You now what helicopters i have had Tony. The CopterX 500 i have had for over a year now. I runs perfectly. The only upgrades i have done were purely cosmetic except for the flybarless head. It flys great now i have the ZYX unit tuned up. Never broken anything on it due to poor quality, only poor flying :). I bought a spare frame from them as a parts replacement kit. Its still sitting there, so that shows its good quality.
For you guys in the states, I highly recommend the Chaos line of helicopters. My 600 is superior in quality to the Align 600, and much cheaper.
Tony, if you want to go 600, get the Chaos 600 like mine Chaos 600 Limited Edition Super Combo Kit with Electronics - Includes FREE Nano Gyro PT9 - RC Aerodyne | Scale RC Helicopters, Airplanes & Parts Store If you want it to be flybarless just give Cliff a ring and he can sort you out with what ever you want.
Remember i also have two motor ESC 600 combos sitting here, if you want one.
 

Tony

Staff member
Trust me Lee, I have been thinking long and hard about getting the Chaos. I know how your birds fly, I watch every video and read every post you make on them and know they are of decent quality. The money savings are something that I will consider as well. I mean, this is $150 LESS than the Align 500 3GX. Granted, it will still need the DFC head and 3 axis gyro to make it the bird I want. But it's still a far cry from the grand they want for the Align 600.

As stated above in another post, I like to compare things "hands on". I don't take people's word for it when they talk about quality, I go by what I can physically feel in my hands. For this reason, the Chaos is in the running with the rest of the birds.

Jesse, thanks bro. It would mean a lot if you can take a look at it, see if anything is missing and work out a deal with them if you can. I will try my hardest to get the cash together to get it if he still has it. I suspect though that it's already sold at that price.

Marius, I'm at a loss for words on that other thread. I have no idea what to say to something like that. It's just amazing at the quality of members we have here on this site.
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
Jesse and tony ill be running there sometime this week actually. I have to pick up my t shirt and some pics from the fun fly.. And also get some random crap.. My weekly dose of lhs visit. Ill see. A deal that good wont last. Lol

He also had a 700E Bnf fbl for like 700 if I am not wrong .. But I'll go and confirm all that. :)
 

Tony

Staff member
Just don't go out of your way. I"m at the house now and have looked over the finances and I won't be able to just throw the money together to get this. It will take a little time to do. And you are correct, deals like that never last long.
 

breeze400

Spagetti Pilot
I would like to tell you guys about my align Experience. First of all I am defiantly one who knows about crashes! Lol. I am the crash king has far has helis are concerned! But, in all the crashes and I mean some were very hard crashes, I never broke a servo! I never had a problem with electronics! Lots of broken blades. Lots of bent booms. Lots of bent shafts. Even a few canopies! Lol. One of my crashes that is documented on this sight, was almost a total! Still she is all put back together and ready for flight! I will never buy any heli other than an align! Except maybe a goblin! Lol. That's how strongly I feel about align products!

Has far has manufacturing is concerned. Yes align is made in Taiwan. But I'll guarantee that the clones are made in china! Like Tony said the aluminum is cheep. You buy a clone and buy the time you upgrade it to align you have spent the money it takes to just go out and buy one. So I don't think your saving anything by buying a clone.

But each to his or her own. Buy what you like. I'll stick with quality. I'll buy align! Lol.

If you guys seriously want to get Tony the cash for a new heli, I'm in! Lol just like previously stated. Tony you can't sell this one!!! Lol.
 

zenmetsu

Member
Good points. I'd love to buy an Align 500 just for comparison sake now. I'd be interested in seeing if there is a difference in weights between the two. Subjecting the aluminum to testing by over-torquing some screws may be a good test. All you'd really need is the same piece of metal from all brands, like maybe the motor mount, and a definitive test could be made.

It could be that the low weight of the 250 has spared me from finding out "the hard way" about metal quality. 250s can be slammed into the ground pretty hard with minimal damage. Still, my 250 has seen probably 20 crashes, still flies great, and is now mostly Align. The carbon fiber is all still EXI, as is the motor mount, the main shaft bearing housings, tail boom holder, etc. These parts are likely never going to fail unless I really dumb-thumb the thing. All the parts I replaced were due to crashes and would have been replaced regardless of brand, and with the repairs my heli is probably just over 80% Align now. The only difference at this point that originally going with Align would have made is making me about $300 lighter in the wallet. Again, this could be completely different on a larger bird.

I think ultimately it comes down to the fact that there are two factors that determine life expectancy of a part in these helicopters: build quality and pilot behavior. A noob that crashes a lot, or a pro that beats the hell of out the heli and subsequently has spectacular crashes, will likely not have the parts survive long enough to observe a failure due to poor quality. All it takes is one in-flight failure, however, to almost total a heli, and of course any savings would be voided out at that point.

And Tony, I did not take offense to your statement. It just seems like everyone is trying to talk me out of my decision and insist that clone = poo-poo. If I get bit in the butt from my decision, expect to hear a full write-up in the blogs indicating poor metal quality, etc. If the decision ends up being a good one, then that $300 saved can go towards other models, repairs, and getting my friends involved in the hobby. Heck, if I have a bad enough experience, I might even order up some carbon fiber and start a completely open project and build a 500 or 600 heli from scratch and use Align parts until I can machine my own.

Some of use just have the DIY mentality, and it dies hard sometimes.
 

Adam

Active Member
Hey lee you kind of have me wanting this chaos now. One question i have is how to upgrade it over to a flybarless? And How much?
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
As far as I have researched the chaos accepts align head. Better still the dfc head. Add to that the cost of your fbl gyro. That's the cost .. There are generic heads like rjx (what I run) .. That fit any bird with 10mm shaft. Chaos is a GOOD bird!!
 

Tony

Staff member
Adam, like Gaba stated, it's just the FBL head and gyro that converts it over to FBL. Simple to do, pain in the butt to set the gyro up if you have never done it before.

And I'm glad I didn't offend anyone on the post I made. As stated, I have reworded the part that I could plainly see could be offensive. In one way you are right, I will always try to talk someone out of a clone, but if they want the clone and buy the clone, that is the end of me trying to talk them out of it. Now my job is to help them get it into the air as safe and reliable as possible. If you do end up doing a comparison, I would love to see it.
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
Hey Adam,
If you check out the Chaos website, they have the fbl head for the 600. Its called the Blackwidow head and its awesome. check my thread pimp my 600 to see pictures of it. Also they sell a FBL system also called the black widow but i don't have any experience with that although the guys are using them on 700 and they seem to be flying well. As i said, give Cliff a call and tell him what you want. Those guys are by far the best customer care service I have experienced. They sent me an upgraded main gear without me even asking for it. And there was nothing wrong with my original one.
My 600 is coming up to a year old now. Since building it, I haven't had to touch it since, and the tolerances are still tight. The servos on the new one have been upgraded to MKS waterproof servos.
Just incase anybody wants an Align hell. I have two friends here selling theres.
1) Align CF 600 Electric, all kitted out with Futaba servos, 80A Castle Creations esc. Price i'll have to ask, but cheap.
2) Align Nitro all futaba, RTF with DX7 and everything to start it. For around $500
 

Tony

Staff member
Lee, I think in the other thread if we end up going new, we will go with the 600 nitro super combo chaos. I have been doing some reading and they seem to be pretty good. Just hope I have the same luck you have had with yours. I may have to give them a call and see if they will work out a deal with the forum.
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
I don't care if the RC-Help bird is Nitro or Electric - but I think it would be wise if it is FBL. As there is many questions regarding FBL.
 

Tony

Staff member
FBL is a must. After having my 450 Pro v2, everything from now on has to be flybarless lmao.

On a side note, I saw your facebook pic and you have a striking resemblance to Justin Timberlake lmao.
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
FBL is a must. After having my 450 Pro v2, everything from now on has to be flybarless lmao.

On a side note, I saw your facebook pic and you have a striking resemblance to Justin Timberlake lmao.

FBL is the future.
Justin Timerlake - LOL - that's a first :cool1:
 
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