General Taking off and landing?

[D.O.G.]

I'm finding out that when it comes to taking off flying your helis that some use idle/stunt 1 to do so. When it comes to landing that some use throttle cut right before landing. My self, I like to take off at normal mode til lift off then switch to idle/stunt 1. When it comes to landing, I also land with normal mode. What are the benefits for starting off on Idle/stunt 1 and the benefits of throttle cut right before landing. I thought I was taking off and landing correctly but maybe I'm wrong. Whats your way of taking off and landing.

 

[Smoggie]

I guess there is no 'right' or 'wrong' way, as long as it works it's good.

Personally I never use a 'normal mode' throttle curve, for a few reasons:

1. I might forget which mode I'm in and try to fly inverted in normal mode (everyone who has used normal mode has done it!)
2. Using the collective stick to start the motor teaches me 'bad habits' vs the 'good habit' of using the throttle hold switch (TH needs to be instinctive in emergencies)
3. It's a waste of a flight mode having a mode that is only used for take off and landing

For me 'normal mode' just makes no sense on an electric heli. IMHO it's a throwback to fixed pitch helis, or fixed wing planes where the left stick is throttle (and to some extent nitro helis). All my flight modes are 'idle up' (with governor) and I just use the throttle hold to start and stop. If you want a low headspeed flight mode for take off and landing then that's fine, that can be set as a low % in 'idle up 1'.

These days I usually land by mini auto. It does have the advantage that it gets you into the habit of hitting TH in flight and gets you some practice in 'flaring' from an auto.

 

[Tony]

It's all personal preference. When I take off, I usually get the helicopter in the air before it has reached max rpm and I land with throttle hold. It's what you want to do and what feels right to you.

 

[PLANETGETLOW]

Because I started out with Nitros I'm used to starting out and landing in Normal Mode. I'm learning that certain helis I can do that with, and others I cannot. It seems to me that I HAVE to spool up in Stunt 1 (flipping the Throttle hold off) to bypass low-rpm vibrations. With the Blade 270 and my 500, I can start in normal mode and flip to Stunt 1. As mentioned I also land in Normal and let the head speed come down slowly but again, this seems to vary for what heli I'm using.

 

[trainrider06]

My natural habit is to flick to idol 0 then land keeping the stick at half stick, then hitting TH. I've been (whenever I actually get to fly) trying to practice baby auto's though (in idol 0) hitting TH right before landing. I haven't really tried this with my 450L though because of its longer boom. I've read that they are a bit fragile because of the longer length, and more prone to getting a slight bend in them. I use 500 size tail braces to try and prevent this.
Since discovering gov flights though I can see how the baby auto's, and idol 1 might be the thing to do with the larger ones. Below 500 size it seems to me that those sizes are a bit harder to auto down.

 

[KLA]

I agree with Tony, it's all personal preference. Whatever feels comfortable. Heck, sometimes I'm just happy getting my heli on the ground in 1 piece, no matter which way it comes down. LOL!!!!!

 

[Eggy 71]

My preferred way was to start in Normal, slowly build up head speed and take off into a stable hover before switching to Stunt mode for basically all my flying. Now I have a question for you guys about the ESC on my 450L. Its a stock RCE-BL45X
I did a few flights today giving my gyro again some fine tuning taking off and landing as described above. I decided to try to spool up in stunt mode. I had throttle hold on throttle just below midstick and took throttle hold off. Nothing happened, well almost nothing happened. I noticed some smoke starting to come out so a quickly disconnected the battery. It was the ESC that heated up. once cooled I tried powering up the bird again. No beeps but the blades twitched and all the servos operated. The ESC started getting hot again so I disconnected power. I'm thinking something i did fried some part of the ESC but not sure how to go about checking it out. Any suggestions?

 

[trainrider06]

Sounds like the ESC let go on ya Derek. I took my stock one off and went to a Hobby Wing 60a ESC. I will spool mine up (the 450 Pro DFC) just as you described on normal idol 0, the ones I run governor on I'll half stick it then flick hold off. I have em set to slow spool up and they spool up really nice that way. The bad thing about doing the spool up in idol 1 is if you don't have gov or spool up set slow on any ESC it's going to crank on pretty quick and the tail will want to whip around.

 

[Eggy 71]

Is there a way to ring out the ESC to make sure it's the bad component. I'm thinking the motor may be the problem too. Since the servos are still functioning it can't be totally shorted. In theory, could it possibly be the motor let go. If the motor shorted would it heat up the ESC too?

 

[trainrider06]

I'd suppose both the motor and ESC could be checked with a meter for resistance although I'd not have a clue of how or what readings you'd be looking for. You could also pull the motor and ESC and do a visual check. Those motors sometimes will show burnt or even broken windings in them. I wouldn't really trust that ESC if it was smoking though.

 

[Derek]

We have another "Derek" here? Cool! Hi Derek, I'm Derek!

Anyway...Ivan...I can't imagine there is a right or wrong way. Whatever works for you. With all my helicopter flights, I take off in Normal mode so that I can build up the headspeed, lift off, and on occasion, I'll fly around a bit in Normal Mode just to have some fun. Then, when I'm ready to fly faster and mild 3Dish, I'll flip to Stunt 1 and play around. Then, I usually go to Stunt 2 and play around more. As for landings....at this point, I'm generally in Stunt 2 still and I'll just "baby auto". My two 500's and my 600 could be landed in Normal Mode...I've done it before but my 450 (with 3GX) really needs to be landed with a "baby auto" because it tries to tip over on the landing if I try to land it normally.

 

[Smoggie]

If you have a multimeter you can do a basic check of the motor. Between any two of the motor wires you should get virtually zero resistance (too low the measure with a standard multimeter). Between any on the wires and the body of the motor you should get 'open circuit' almost infinite resistance. As Rodney said, with a burned out motor you can often see that the windings are burned by looking in through the cooling holes.

There really isnt a check for the ESC other than a close visual inspection, however if smoke was seen coming from the ESC then it's toast for certain.

 

[KLA]

Derek, you could be right thinking that it is just your motor. You said the servos work but you didn't hear any beeps, well, the beeps come from the motor. When you plug in the battery, the motor acts as a speaker and that's where you get the beeps from. It could be that just your motor is bad, shorting out and making the ESC very hot, but when that happens it puts so much stress on the ESC, and like Rodney said, I really wouldn't trust that ESC anymore. Plus, ESC's really aren't very expensive, you would be better off just replacing it anyway. And you can program the new one with a soft start feature.

 

[Smoggie]

If the ESC is burned out you dont get any beeps either. It's the ESC that sends the pulses to the motor to make it beep. The BEC circuit in the ESC is seperate from the main motor control circuit, so often even if the ESC is toasted the servos and receiver/FBL will still work.

But it could be a damaged motor that caused the ESC to burn so before you hook up another ESC to the motor you should check the motor out. Bad connections or poor soldering on one of the three ESC to motor bullets can also cause an ESC to burn out on startup.

 

[KLA]

Yep, you're right. I didn't even think about the BEC circuit. But, hey, give me a bit of a break. It's early and I just woke up a half hour ago. The BEC circuit could still be good, controlling the servos, and main circuit is bad. Either way, if you saw smoke coming from the ESC, then it's time to replace it. Just check out your motor real good before plugging it into a new ESC. If the motor was the cause of the ESC smoke, then it will surely fry the new ESC too.

 

[D.O.G.]

Good day Kla. I had the same thing happen to my ESC but no smoke. I couldn't get the ESC to do nothing. I didn't have the proper tools to test the motor or esc. Since I was getting a new HW 50a ESC for the 450, I went ahead and bought a new motor Tarot 450MX (3500KV) brushless motor to match the new ESC. That's if you have some spare $$$$ laying around. That way it will take out the guess work. Just a thought.

 

[KLA]

That's normally what I do, also. If I am replacing the ESC I just go ahead and replace the motor right along with it. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

[Eggy 71]

Thanks for all the input, ill pull things apart tonight and start checking. I'm not sure if the smoke was from the motor or esc. Assuming the esc is toast what is the best to replace it with? Another 45A Align or are there better aftermarket ones. A quick search on EBay shows an ' only used once' Align 45A for 30.99. He says he has 5 of them. Sounds a little fishy but I've never bought parts through eBay before. Are there many scammers out there flogging garbage for parts?

 

[trainrider06]

If you can swing it get ya a HoBby Wing 60a amp or maybe a 50a might work, you can set spool up to really nice and slow, has a great governor on it also.
If you have a big honkin chunk of shrink wrap, you could peel off the existing shrink wrap and possibly see some burnt circuits or something like that. Other than testing it its guess work. As Steve said check your motor connections also. Carbon fiber is a conductor, and if you had a motor wire that got exposed and hit the frame that woulda done it!

Oh and as far as eBay goes a lot of hobby shops sell stuff on their too. I have had 99% good luck buying stuff on there, but make sure you price a new one first! Because some of them will try and sell retail for used stuff!

 

[Eggy 71]

I plugged in a battery to the ESC apart from the battery no heating and servos all worked. Disconnected and reattached the motor. Started heat up instantly and I disconnected. This made me think it was the motor. I rang out the motor all read well. No sign of burnt windings but you really can't see much inside the 460MX 3200 kv. No burnt smell on the motor but could definitely smell the ESC. So I started doubting that the motor was the problem.
It was definitely the ESC. I took a chance and opened up the ESC. found it. Anyone know what it was that shorted out?