General Spirit Pro Fbl + Spektrum Dx9 Black

[Alex Evans]

IT is the first time I am trying to link this Tx to a Windows PC software for controller setup.
I have major problems with stick control movement, until I realized - the software "Thinks" that I am using MODE 2, but I am using MODE 1 : Throttle + Aileron on the right stick...

Anybody had such a case and can tell me how to fix this? I have no MODE confusion with the radio itself.

Cheers

 

[Smoggie]

It might be that your Tx software is still set to mode 2. Check in the Tx software that it's set to mode 1 (this is quite separate to the mechanical changes to put throttle on the right)

Page 40 of the manual: https://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/SPMR9900-Manual_EN.pdf

All channel assignments are fully configurable in the Spirit, but make sure the Tx is set correctly first.

 

[Alex Evans]

It might be that your Tx software is still set to mode 2. Check in the Tx software that it's set to mode 1 (this is quite separate to the mechanical changes to put throttle on the right)

Page 40 of the manual: https://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/SPMR9900-Manual_EN.pdf

All channel assignments are fully configurable in the Spirit, but make sure the Tx is set correctly first.

Yes, but it is very confusing - the distinction between CH1,CH2,CH3 and CH4 does NOT correspond to the channel assignment page. For example - The ESC on the Spirit Pro is plugged into AUX1 (I am using a satellite only 4561T) and the throttle is assigned to channel 1, which is confusing with CH1 that the pitch servo is plugged into

Cheers

 

[Smoggie]

Yes, but it is very confusing - the distinction between CH1,CH2,CH3 and CH4 does NOT correspond to the channel assignment page. For example - The ESC on the Spirit Pro is plugged into AUX1 (I am using a satellite only 4561T) and the throttle is assigned to channel 1, which is confusing with CH1 that the pitch servo is plugged into

Cheers

Yes, I guess it is confusing when you put it that way. The thing with a FBL that you have to consider is that there are 'input channels', and 'output channels'. The two are not the same and the channel numbers dont match up. They never be a direct Tx channel to servo channel relationship because each swash servo does not respond to a single Tx channel, it responds to a mix of three (aileron, elevator and pitch) plus there are only 4 servos and one throttle on the output (5 output channels in total) but there will be at least 6 (and often 8 or 9) channels on the input.

Bottom line is do not try to second guess the setup, just follow the manual/setup wizard methodically and all will be perfect.

 

[Alex Evans]

Hello my teacher, hope you don't mind me calling you that name...
I have been a teacher throught my life, I have been writing user manuals during that time.

1) I really understand that electronic compensation and mimicing hardware FB systems is a big task
2) In my opinion, the Spirit manual is not written very well. It is written by someone who knows the topic inside out.
3) Before I retired, we had a family business with 20 staff it was a computer software bespoke development business. For all manuals we produced for customers, a team of programmers was developing the software, but another team meber was doing the manual - that was the only way that the manual had a better chance to be better, the person doing it was the one to ask the developer all the "Stupid" questions that to the developers seemed clear.

I didn't find any such explanation that you have given me above anywhere, until now. Thanks for that. How can a new pilot, coming into this Spirit controller even start to think that way?

I am stuck now in step 7 of the setup and the Spirit team doesn't answer my questions.

Cheers

 

[Smoggie]

Setting up a FBL can be a steep learning curve! Same goes for any FBL, the jargon alone can be daunting.

I’ve setup a lot of Spirits so if any specific questions just ask. Private message is ok if you prefer.

 

[Alex Evans]

Hello again,
I started the Spirit setup from scartch, for the forth time.
I get to step 8 of the wizard, to get to 6 degrees, I manage to get to 7.8 degrees and the box is at 64, will not go down any further.

Is the 64 the bottom? why? If so, it means that something in my mechanics is wrong.

What do you think?

Cheers

 

[Smoggie]

that would point to something being wrong.

When you move from step 7 (leveling the arms, swash and setting zero pitch). You must have the blade at zero pitch, pointing straight forward and the pitch gauge reading zero. Only progress to step 8 when you have it set up that way. As soon as you move to step 8 the software adds cyclic pitch, so it's vital that the gauge was set to zero in the previous step. Once in step 8 you adjust the slider so that the pitch gauge reads 6 deg.

If you still cant get to 6 deg then that would indicate that something in the mechanical setup is wrong, servo arms too long for instance.

 

[Alex Evans]

I am attching here some pictures, maybe you can see anything wrong, one picture is the servo arm

In other places I see that I need to get zero degree on the blade that is positioned over the boom, not forward...

I started from scratch, set the 90 degrees while the Spirit cyclic was all in zero and all stick in center position
Then, the elevator was left and pitch + Ailerone adjusted upwards



I am confused

Thanks again

 

[Smoggie]

You need to move the have the balls closer in on the servo. The FLB conversion needs different servo geometry compared to the flybar head.

 

[Alex Evans]

OK, I will look for different servo arms.
I am still wondering,
1) what is this 64 limit in step 8
2) what should be the length of the 2 pushrods for this conversion

Cheers

 

[Smoggie]

OK, I will look for different servo arms.
I am still wondering,
1) what is this 64 limit in step 8
2) what should be the length of the 2 pushrods for this conversion

Cheers

1) 64 is just a value that has been picked as the minimum travel that would still keep the servo within acceptable operating travel. having to dial down the throw further would give unacceptable loss of resolution and torque output from the servo.
2) This i cant tell you but using a smaller servo wheel or arm wont effect rod length by very much at all.

 

[Alex Evans]

1) 64 is just a value that has been picked as the minimum travel that would still keep the servo within acceptable operating travel. having to dial down the throw further would give unacceptable loss of resolution and torque output from the servo.
2) This i cant tell you but using a smaller servo wheel or arm wont effect rod length by very much at all.

It seems to me that a shorter servo arm will decrease the total travel of the cyclic, am I right?
How is this going to give me the 6 degrees?

As you can see, I am still confused...
Thanks again for your effort

 

[Smoggie]

It seems to me that a shorter servo arm will decrease the total travel of the cyclic, am I right?
How is this going to give me the 6 degrees?

As you can see, I am still confused...
Thanks again for your effort

That's right, shorter arm at servo will decrease pitch travel at the blade.. That's exactly what you want because at the moment even with travel at it's lowest setting in the software you are getting too much pitch (7.8 Deg as opposed to 6 Deg). So you need to mechanically reduce the travel.

Fundamentally this is a problem of the geometry of the bell crank linkages which were designed for a flyber head. Shorter arms on the servo is a work-around to try to get the DFC head geometry into acceptable range. A better solution would be a non-DFC flybarless head that had longer arms on the blade grips.

 

[Alex Evans]

I see, OK - is there anywhere a documented definition of what a FBL DFC main shaft length should be?
The one Ireceived with the head fro Gratt is 10mm shorter than the genuine Align shaft and I wonder - if I should cut the Align shaft to the same length?

Cheers

 

[Smoggie]

There is a multitude of different shafts for the Align 550/600 series according to all the various models and upgrades that have gone on over the years. many of these optional shafts are no longer available. Last time I did a custom build on one I bought a long shaft and cut it and drilled to the required length.

 

[Alex Evans]

MY question is - I have two different DFC shafts, how do I decide which is the correct length in my case?

One is longer by 10mm

Cheers

 

[Alex Evans]

That's right, shorter arm at servo will decrease pitch travel at the blade.. That's exactly what you want because at the moment even with travel at it's lowest setting in the software you are getting too much pitch (7.8 Deg as opposed to 6 Deg). So you need to mechanically reduce the travel.

Fundamentally this is a problem of the geometry of the bell crank linkages which were designed for a flyber head. Shorter arms on the servo is a work-around to try to get the DFC head geometry into acceptable range. A better solution would be a non-DFC flybarless head that had longer arms on the blade grips.

Hi Smoggie,

I finnaly received today my Align DFC swashplate. The top swash has in the arms TWO, side by side holes to screw in the bolt connectors, one is closer to the shaft.

1) Why are there two spots?
2) Is the closer to the shaft not good to resolve my 6° problem?

Cheers

 

[Alex Evans]

That's right, shorter arm at servo will decrease pitch travel at the blade.. That's exactly what you want because at the moment even with travel at it's lowest setting in the software you are getting too much pitch (7.8 Deg as opposed to 6 Deg). So you need to mechanically reduce the travel.

Fundamentally this is a problem of the geometry of the bell crank linkages which were designed for a flyber head. Shorter arms on the servo is a work-around to try to get the DFC head geometry into acceptable range. A better solution would be a non-DFC flybarless head that had longer arms on the blade grips.

Hello again,

OK, I finished my "Experiment" with NEGATIVE outcome

1) Reset the Spirit Servo Sub-trim to zero for all 3 cyclic servos
2) Re-calibrated the Tx center points
3) Replaced the original Align wheels of the 3 cyclic with arms and positioned the ball links lower by 2 points for all 3 servos
4) Reset all 3 mechanically to 90°

5) Went through the wizard from the start
6) In Step 7, used the sub-trim to level the swashplate using the tool
7) Checked the Pitch box and adjusted the blade over the tail boom to 0°
8) Turned around the other blade over the boom, adjusted the blade rod to be zero as well

9) Moved to step-8.... not SIX degrees and maximum shift to 64

So, I am now in despration stage - I MUST be doing here something wrong which is not obvious from my description of my steps above. Please read my steps, see if you can figure out, or what else can I do?

Cheers

 

[Smoggie]

9) Moved to step-8.... not SIX degrees and maximum shift to 64

I'm unclear what you mean by this?. When you go to step 8, what pitch angle is the gauge reading. Can it be adjust to 6 degrees using the slider in the software?

in answer to the previous question.. Yes, use the inner ball position on the swash