450 Ok what did I miss?

[trainrider06]

I had posted a set up question on my 450 about swash setting, well blades I noticed were out of track...
Adjusted them, now it's all outta whack again....I shoulda been a poet I think...
I know I must have missed something in the setup with it...
My swash servo arms were all set level and 90, at mid stick...but now the servo arms are off...except when I flick idle up switch...then they are level....but it's a dog, and the swash squats pretty low for my liking...
Where could I have gone off track here?

 

[Tony]

Is there anyway that you can get us a video of what it's doing? That would be the best way for us to pinpoint your issue.

 

[murankar]

1) setup needs to be dine in id1

2) servo arms may not be 90° at mid stick while in normal mode due to pitch curve

3) leveling should start at the base with the swash, after servo arms are 90ed at mid stick. Keep mid stick throughout setup except when setting collective pitch.

4) make sure you have 0° pitch at mid stick on both blades. If not make the adjustments to get both blades at 0° while at mid stick in iu1.

5) swash travel should be set in the fbl controller. But you have to get the pitch range set in both positive and negative ranges. If you have +10° and -15° then the swash is not in the center of travel. Get the swash centered then set max positive pitch, typically 10 to 12 degrees. Check negative it should be the same measurement.

Once all that is done check swash limits.

5)

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner

 

[trainrider06]

I think that was my hiccup! I believe it was set up in normal mode
(Curses) ok back to the drawing board!

 

[murankar]

Yeah that's not going to work so well, .

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner

 

[trainrider06]

(On the floor kicking and screaming...."I don't wanna I don't wanna")
Man bummer! It was zero both blades but only 8 +\- so I adjusted my radio
Swash mix because I was not getting movement enough on the head...
But was flying pretty decent....(well hovering, I hadn't had the chance to fly it,
Because I noticed blades tracking like a sea gull flapping around)
Leveled em out then it was back to full power dog lifting off again.....

 

[murankar]

Blade tracking should be close if your setup is good. Just remember to mark a blade with some kind of visible mark so you know which blade is which. When more than on turn is need make a turn on each blade in opposite directions. this will help try and keep some equality going. after fixing the tracking give your 0 pitch a recheck and make sure it's not to far off.

 

[trainrider06]

Blade tracking should be close if your setup is good. Just remember to mark a blade with some kind of visible mark so you know which blade is which. When more than on turn is need make a turn on each blade in opposite directions. this will help try and keep some equality going. after fixing the tracking give your 0 pitch a recheck and make sure it's not to far off.

Will do! Thank you!

 

[trainrider06]

Blade tracking should be close if your setup is good. Just remember to mark a blade with some kind of visible mark so you know which blade is which. When more than on turn is need make a turn on each blade in opposite directions. this will help try and keep some equality going. after fixing the tracking give your 0 pitch a recheck and make sure it's not to far off.

This is a fly bar helicopter, my 450 I mean....wanted to make sure that was
clear.....
Ok so this is maddening I must admit....I did some adjustments
on the swash to bring it up, because it was banging down onto the collar.
I was getting like 11 degrees negative and only 6 or 7 positive.
I have fiddled with the longer middle control arms lengthening and shortening
them, also the same with the shorter control arms in between the
longer and shortest on the blade grips. (I'm sorry I don't know the
names of these links. The closest I have come to getting even 10+/-
is 8. I keep ending up lopsided on my +/- measurements with
negative being the larger number every time.
I can go into my swash mix and bump it up to like 85-6..
and that gets me close to level numbers on either side of the +/-
But I don't know if this may be too high a setting...
I'm getting worried I will get too far out on my control arms from
the servos to swash in order to attain my setting goals....
Also are these arms supposed to be level when at mid stick?
I'm talking about the arms from top of swash and in between the
blade grips....again sorry for my heli terms illiteracy
Rodney

 

[Lee]

Here is a picture I made, of the sequence you need to work through.
With servo arms at 90º, swash mix at default (normally +- 60%)

Step one, adjust links to give you movement up and down without any binding against the frame or the head block. Helis manual should give a starting point.

Step two, adjust the links until the washout arms are level.

Step three, adjust until the top arms are level.

Step four, adjust the blade grip links until they are at 0º

Make sure your paddles are level with the flybar cage.

After that, you should have a perfect set up.
If the pitch isn't enough, then go into the radio and increase the swash mix for pitch, making sure you have no binding.

 

[trainrider06]

Here is a picture I made, of the sequence you need to work through.
With servo arms at 90º, swash mix at default (normally +- 60%)

Step one, adjust links to give you movement up and down without any binding against the frame or the head block. Helis manual should give a starting point.

Step two, adjust the links until the washout arms are level.

Step three, adjust until the top arms are level.

Step four, adjust the blade grip links until they are at 0º

Make sure your paddles are level with the flybar cage.

After that, you should have a perfect set up.
If the pitch isn't enough, then go into the radio and increase the swash mix for pitch, making sure you have no binding.

That right there is art! Yes I do know the sequence of the adjustments on the links, I have just gotten this thing so far out I am gonna have to go back start from scratch!
Re measure links according to the manual and start from there!
I think my mistake was setting it up in normal....then fiddling when I shouldn't have.....
Thank you for the sequence pic thought I probably need to print that out so I can remember LOL I forget sometimes! That might be a good heli hobbyist poster for the wall!
Rodney

 

[Lee]

Best thing to do is set your pitch curve to 50% flat, then you are sure your servos are centred no matter where the stick is.
Once done, return the curve to normal.

 

[trainrider06]

Best thing to do is set your pitch curve to 50% flat, then you are sure your servos are centred no matter where the stick is.
Once done, return the curve to normal.

ahhh yes that I will do! I had it at like a pitiful 35%, and I think that helped to get it all out of whack! Then went to 70% after my adjustments in normal mode.....and then.....well you may know the drill after that.....its all outta control then! LOL I don't know if I got the wrong measurements for my links or not when I first built the heli but I noticed my secondary links along with the ones just up from that were just about banged closed to where I had no room to shorten on them...I am gonna recheck those...against the manual.

 

[trainrider06]

ok I am lost here....I have checked checked and rechecked adjusted....still this thing won't behave....
I went back releveled swash in idol up, adjusted the swash up some (because it seemed to be way too low on - pitch.
Got all the links level (they are just about maxed out with the adjustments all the way turned (shortened) but that was where it leveled the links on the head.
From this I get like 14 degrees neg pitch! And a crappy 6 degrees pos pitch! I did get it at one time adjusted 10+/- but the links were not level.
It's like something is backwards because I will have this monster imbalance with 10+ degrees of negative pitch, and only around 5 degrees positive pitch....
When I start trying to adjust it to balance the pitch between neg and pos then the linkages get so far out that I either run outta room on the adjustments with the dog bone links or the links that are supposed to be level are way out of whack.....
I don't know I am lost here......

 

[Lee]

I think we need a picture of this to see what you're doing there

 

[trainrider06]

I think we need a picture of this to see what you're doing there

I ended up running my swash mix up to like 80% and got 9+/10- out of it....took it up flew it around a bit, brought it in to adjust blade tracking and promptly caught landing skid
in grass, (was in idol up) she tilted caught blades stripped the servo! I will get pix of the head after I settle this little mishap....But isn't 80% swash mix adjustment a little
High? it seemed to be flying pretty decent, although I think I need to slow the tail a bit it seems pretty sensitive, just a tap and she's swinging on me....

 

[Tony]

We have all been there and done that bro. Fix, setup, and fly again is all you can do.

 

[trainrider06]

We have all been there and done that bro. Fix, setup, and fly again is all you can do.

Just makes me sick....all those hours messing with it adjusting adjusting!
Racking my pea brain to try and get it right, then go do a dumb
thing like that! Was almost to the driveway, and let her get just a bit too low!
In fact the heli was in the grass, blades caught the concrete.
Wonder if I should go back to landing in normal mode....but I
like the sound of the blades pitching negative lol

 

[Tony]

Nah bro, don't beat yourself up over this. I assure you, it happens to everyone.

But yes, I would suggest landing in Normal mode. Or better yet, if you really do like landing in IU, just flick throttle hold when you are about a foot off the ground, add collective slowly and auto it down. These are known as "baby auto's".

As for the sound of negative pitch, you really shouldn't do that. If your blade grips are just slightly loose, you could have a boom strike.

 

[trainrider06]

Nah bro, don't beat yourself up over this. I assure you, it happens to everyone.

But yes, I would suggest landing in Normal mode. Or better yet, if you really do like landing in IU, just flick throttle hold when you are about a foot off the ground, add collective slowly and auto it down. These are known as "baby auto's".

As for the sound of negative pitch, you really shouldn't do that. If your blade grips are just slightly loose, you could have a boom strike.

Ahhh never thought about that....Hmmm never done the TH landing, have to try that! I should have kept me a stock of servos for it....went and ordered 3 to have.
My Sr's i have probably 3 or 4 of just about every part on those....would I be considered a parts hoarder?

Oh I had asked earlier but no one mentioned, is that normal to have that much of a swash mix adjustment in order for me to start getting into the ball park on those pitch
adjustments? I had it up to like 80%! But that was the only way I could come out level on everything without maxing out swash dog bones, and the dog bones connecting
the rest of the head....