General Need help - No first flight - Heli won't get off the ground for first hover

[Morelight]

It was finally nice enough today to take the heli out for first hover and tweaking. (BananaHobby - 6 CH 2.4GHz BlitzRCWorks Tornado V2 RTF Radio Remote Control Helicopter). I've carefully, I thought, checked out the bird, got blade tracking perfect, controls are mode 2, rudder worked fine once I installed a new rotor control arm, (it was broken when I got it).

She spools up great, and then at 50% stick, I expected her to lift off and begin my CP training. Nope. Even at full stick she stays put on the ground. Guess what I said then.

I bring the bird home and put her on the stand and spooled it up to realize the heli is pushing air up not down to lift. Pretty sure the blades are on properly. Reversed them anyways and same thing. Seriously, 4 feet in the air on the test stand and Zero downdraft.

This heli is supposed to be 100% flight tested. How did they get it off the ground to test it? The Tx is not a name brand, and I never changed any of the settings in it, or changed any wires etc. Its supposed to be RTF after all. I did see the throttle curve for normal and 3D and they were generic. I don't know enough about all the other settings to change or even know if they are wrong.

I've taken pictures of the bird, and of the manual for the Tx showing what are supposed to be the settings for the Tornado.

Man I just want to start flying other than sim flying, and I've already had a month of hell getting an RMA from BH for a smaller so called RTF FP120 that was returned, since it was completely unflyable out of the box and smacked a wall on first hover attempt.

This hobby is hard enough without being screwed over by companies that sell junk. Hope you all have heard of this before and know a fix for it.

Thanks in advance
Vince

 

[Tony]

Do me a favor if you would. Grab a video camera, lock the base solid so it won't move, point the camera to the head and also show some of the blades, and fire it up very slowly. In order to correct this issue, we are going to have to see it in action if we can. It will make this a lot faster. Let me know if you can do this.

 

[Morelight]

Sorry had to take a break and eat, stressed out. Ok I have a UTube account, although haven't put up a vid there yet, I think I can do it. Is a side on shot ok? Do you want me to slowly work up to an almost hover speed where the blade tracking is nominal and let it be filmed for a bit at that point?

 

[Tony]

If it's not getting any lift, do it quite slowly from low stick to full stick, and yes, a side shot would be great.

 

[Morelight]

Ok I'm on it right now and will post the UTube link once its up. You the man Tony. Thanks for taking a shot at this.

 

[Tony]

That's what I'm here for bro. If I can't find the time to fly myself, then I'm going to make sure all of you have the time and setup to do it yourself

 

[coolgabsi]

Sounds like the pitch is reversed...

Throttle stick up (with throttle hold) should make swash go up, and throttle stick down should make swash go down, if that's opposite, then more throttle stick up gives you more negative pitch.

Check your pitch channel settings on the radio.

Did you build this bird or did it come prebuilt?

 

[Tony]

That's not always the case Gaba. There are some out there that have the swash up, pitch down. Not sure what one this is though.

 

[Morelight]

All right the video is up on Utube and no idea how to link it other than to copy and paste the link in this reply??? here goes http://youtu.be/8UWhnfx8fgY

 

[Morelight]

ok I think this is the proper embed part . <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8UWhnfx8fgY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Tony]

Your swash is not moving with the collective. Check out your swash mix settings and make sure they are correct. As Gaba said, when you raise and lower the throttle (with throttle hole on), the swash should go up and down. I didn't see it move at all on this one. What Tx are you using?

 

[Morelight]

The Tx that came with the heli. There are pictures with my first post above. If you visit the banana hobby link I posted in the thread, their internet spokesman (aka Shill), "Hey Guys" Pete, has embedded 2 videos of the Tornado. Whats in the box, and a flight video.

What can I say, this is month 3 1/2 of the hobby for me, and it takes mistakes to learn. (money too)

You are most likely correct about something not right in the settings in the Tx. Should I put in the manual's settings, or use one's you recommend. I'd rather go with your preferences to be honest.

Do you think the mixing settings are wrong or something else?

Thanks for helping with this guys.

 

[Tony]

because I don't know that Tx, I would say call them and find out what setting is wrong on it. They will know much better than I. If they tell you to get lost, it's your problem, then it becomes our problem lol. Either way you want to do it, we are here for ya. But, there has to be something not set correctly causing the swash not to move with the collective.

 

[Morelight]

After the fact so to speak, I have found many negative forum posts about Banana Hobby support. They put you on hold for hours, then keep switching help desk people to put you off and give up trying. It took 3 weeks and some profanity,
to even get an email from them about the bird I just returned 2 weeks ago (which makes it over 5 weeks total so far and counting).

I'm definitely on my own on this as far as BH is concerned. That is why I will never give them another dime.

If I'm this stressed before flying the bird, assuming it flies at some point, I am going to have definite trust issues forever. Kind of like a short version of your heli nightmare2 Tony..???

 

[Tony]

haha, Yeah 'Nightmare' was horrible until I got it setup correctly. 'Nightmare 2.0' was not as bad, but still bad.

Did you get a manual with this heli? If so, verify all of the settings.

 

[zenmetsu]

If you could provide a model number of the transmitter, we might be able to help out. It might be one of the software-configured ones that need a PC to program. It looks like the throttle curve is OK, but the pitch curve appears to be zero.

Another possibility: with throttle stick at bottom (do not spin up rotor), does the swash plate move at all when given cyclic input? It could be a case of having all 3 cyclic servos either not plugged in correctly, or not receiving input from the receiver for some reason.

My money is on either pitch curve issues, or the pitch being set to zero in the swash mix. Hey, it could happen.

 

[Morelight]

Yes in the video I took (with settings that were original to the Tx), you guys realized that the swash wasn't pitching up (mixing?) with stick up. The next day I spent a bunch of hours working with the controller (the only setup parameter info with the Tx is a few page booklet - I took pictures and they are at the top of page 1 in this thread).

So then, much akin to a computer gone bad, I restored the factory defaults, (which gave the same results. wash is up, not down, never even gets light on the skids), and here they are:

Reverse: all chan 1-6 normal
D/R 1,2,4 chan +100%
Exp0 1,2,4 chan 0%
Ep chan 1-6 +and- is +100% ie?? all servo travel from center is 100%?
Gyrd -60% GyrU +80%
Mrv (mixing rate value?) A=+100% E=+100% R=+100% ( I tried mixing chan 3 and 6 together with all other values the same and same problem)
Mix1=yes=MasterChan2-SlvChan4 value=+100%
Mix2=yes=MasterChan4-SlvChan2 value=-100%
Mix3=no
Mix4=no
Throttle Norm Curve: 00 25 50 75 100 %
Pitch Norm Curve: 50 63 75 87 100 %
Throttle 3D Curve: 100 65 50 65 100 %
Pitch 3D Curve: 00 25 50 75 100 %
Swash setting: 120° with A E P all at 100%

The Rx wires and connections I checked out as well, and they were as the book(let) for the heli shows. and listed below:
B- battery / bind (empty socket)
6- pitch
5-gyro gain (empty socket)
4-rudder
3-throttle (this is where the out from the esc is plugged)
2-elevator
1-aileron

Much of the settings now I understand well enough I think. But...... Even looking around the net, I can't find explanations for: D/R -Expo and MRV-Mix1/Mix2 that give me an idea what they should be for a 400 sized CP heli or any other larger heli. I found definitions, but no real world comparisons of the values and conditions under which you use them.

I have been looking what is termed "tamer" and "easy hover" settings for people new to flying CCPM. Which I believe is where Expo? with or without? D/R comes in? I would like softer cyclic settings at the beginning to get the hovering nose and slow FF circuits, and then go from there.

Thanks again all of you for thinkin' on it. I may be a noob to CCPM heli, but I wasn't born last night or the night before. This is messed up for sure.

 

[coolgabsi]

other guys i see are trying to help you with the swash not moving...

your lower main gear is getting black on it. hope its not from the black motor wire. If it is, I would stop that immediately... or you'll have a spark and magic smoke will be released.!! lol

hope you get it fixed..

 

[Morelight]

no its not from the wire.... the motor brass pinion is mounted and meshing too tight to the main drive gear. I bought some lithium grease and applied some lubricant. I guess the black is some of the brass in very fine filings, but, on the bright side, the head turns much easier now.

I kind of hope I do too. I bought 4 35C Turnigy batteries for it, spare main blades, tail rotors, control arms, all ball links, head, belt/gear kit, rotor drive kit and all bolt/fastener bag for this heli, in order to have at least common parts here for it.
I have a Blade500 with DX6i paid for and will come in July when that heli is released, so no big deal. Looking for a job atm anyways lol.

If I don't get it running soon, its going to a good home.

 

[RomHeli]

Just a thought here Moorlight - I'm thinking KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid - NO Offence.

You haven't mentioned this point anywhere so Have you checked that the Collective servo / servos actually work?

Don't forget Safety First - UnPLUG ALL your Electric Motor leads B4 this test!

Regards...A