450 More 3gx woes!!

Mda1701d

Member
Hello again to all.
Just spent hours doing FBL conversion to my 450 clone, using all genuine Align bits. First thing to note was that the rotor head upgrade kit does not come with the feathering shaft or thrust bearings, I had to order separately. Also, I knew it didnt come with the swash, so I got one of these as well.
The centre of the head did not fit well, with far too much slack around the Jesus bolt, so I changed it for the Dominator type, with clamp at the bottom.
I built it all very carefully, servos at 90, level swash, 11 deg pitch, 8 deg cyclic, set the tail up etc. The only part of the head carried over was the cheaper carbon blades I was flying with the flybar. 3GX flashed to v.5, and settings on the PC as per Tonys exellent vid.
First spool up was to check blade tracking, and all seemed well, so a charged Lipo was strapped in, and time for a hover test.
As the heli reached mid stick, and began to get light on the skids, it began to pitch to the left, so I popped the stick up a little quicker to clear the ground. Heli almost went inverted, tipping over to the left!!! The resulting contact stripped all three servos.
Not to be put off, I ordered three new Align cyclics, and some new Align blades.
I've spent another week of evenings rebuilding it, setting up again etc, but couldn't see a reason for the tip over. The only possible problem could be that I had the wires to the 3gx quite tight, could have been transfering vibes?
The wiring is now re routed to be more slack.
I done another spool test, and the swash seemed to sit nice and level at mid stick, even after being on the ground running for a while.
Our grass isn't bowling green smooth, but not bad, any more thoughts anyone?? Nervous about the launch now!!!
Thanks!!
 

Tony

Staff member
If it pitched quickly, my guess would be your swash correction direction is reversed. It's worth a shot to go back into DIR mode and triple check the directions of the swash. Make sure, no matter what way you move it, it's always trying to keep the swash level. Bank to the left, swash should tilt to the right to try and stay level and so on.

We have all had this happen to us. It's not fun. I did it with a brand new set of Align blades that I had just strapped on. Not a fun day lol. Let me know if this works.
 

Mda1701d

Member
Hi Tony,
Thanks for your thoughts!!
I had made double sure the correction was right, and always before even spooling the Dominator, and now this FBL model, I do the swash reaction check.
Still not sure what happened!!
 

Tony

Staff member
I hate to say it, but it could be an issue with the gyro, or more specifically, the firmware that's in it. V5 has issues, and they tend to be all over the place. Could be ground stability, could be hovering cyclic, could be tail, you just never know.

If you are set on keeping the 3GX, Try flashing 2.1 on there and see how it does. Also, make sure you are running some DR and Expo in there as well.

However, if you want to make an investment that I can assure will work for you, upgrade to the Ikon or AR7200BX (if you are running spektrum). There are other gyros out there, but those are the two that I use, and they are fantastic.
 

Mda1701d

Member
Hers an update with my findings, hopefully this might help someone else!!
Tried another launch not long after this post, same result, the heli wobbled out of control as it got light on the skids and yet another blade strike on the grass.... mainshaft, servo, and swash plate damaged(ball link thread pulled out) So yet more parts and another rebuild!
After this, I put the 3GX back on the PC, and compared the settings to the Dominator, which is quite stable in hover.
I bought this 3GX as unboxed, and found a problem. The pots had been turned up to almost full, so the gains were way too high. Dropped them down to 105 and tried again. This time, some success!! Bit more stable on the ground, but I found the tail was drifting bad anticlockwise, as I got light on the skids. Tried it in the air breifly, and it just spins anti clock.
Back to the PC, and found the rudder delay at 30%, Dominator was at 0%. Tried to alter this, but theres a glitch in the software that wont let me. After a bit of internet hunting, I found you have to set it to 0% then let 3GX time out. Success!!
Back to the garden, and at last, reasonable launch. I still had some tail drift, so experimented with the gyro gain on the TX. I found it needs 83% to stop drift, and although there is no wag, I get bounce back after right rudder. Left rudder is fine. I want to try this at the field now, a bit more altitude, as it still doesn't feel as locked in as the 450L, I guess it could just be the shorter tail boom, smaller blades and less head speed!
I would be interested if anyone has found a fix for the tail bounce though, as the Dominator does the same thing, both on V 5.0 with DX6i TX.
Thanks all, Mark
 

trainrider06

Active Member
Put a Kbar on it! i have not messed with the 3Gx system, don't want to...have read many having trouble with that system.
I have a Walkera V450D03 (some have had troubles with that one also ESC getting hot tail control issues, servos burnt out etc..) I got mine from a friend who was sick of messing with it...I have only Spektrum controlled helis, so I removed all Walkera stuff, put a Kbar on it, spektrum DMX sat, and that thing is ROCK solid! All you would need is a Sat receiver, and the Kbar, and I think you'll be very pleased with it!
 

Tony

Staff member
The bounce back is quite common with the V5 3GX. And as far as I know, there is no fix for it. Glad you got it in the air though.
 

Mda1701d

Member
Yeh, thanks guys!
I am starting to wonder if I should upgrade to beastx in time, but for now I just want to get the helis flying and doing some circuits!
Just waiting for some nice weather now, went out to the field this morning, flew the Pro clone, was ok, but the wind was quite strong, ended up with loads of lift, and up to 30ft!!! Got it down safe though!!!
Thanks again.
 

holtneil

Active Member
Hi mate get the Kbar the tail problem in the Kbar you can adjust it its the acceleration stop on the tail set up , as Rodney said they are good both of my 3gx units had problems inc a tip over of my 500 pro at take of speed it snapped the heli into 2 parts , here are my 2 helis on kbars super stable, if you want a kbar here is a good site
http://www.targethobby.com/2013-kbar-k8-3-axis-fbl-gyro-534-pro-p-4162316.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FNjmKoB1Ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLFvC3Iu6Bw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X91d71qLbAo
 

trainrider06

Active Member
Gosh holtneil, nobody wants our Kbar! Lol I do love my BeastX though...but nobody believes us when we tell em the Kbar is just as solid as a Beastx/Ikon/etc...
 

D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
My friend doesn't have the K-bar but he does have a V-bar on his 450/500 and he loves it. My self I have the BeastX on my 450/X3 and I'm very pleased with mine. For the price, there's alot of members that support the the K/V bar family. They all can't be wrong.
 

trainrider06

Active Member
This is true D.O.G!

Yes very true holtneil! :wink:
Well whatever he chooses, it'll be a lot better than the 3G system.
More and more those BeastX, Ikon's, Vbars are coming down in price.
And any of those are great controllers.
 

murankar

Staff member
I see a small drop in vbars in the near future. With the release of the NEO I think people will migrate that way.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner
 

holtneil

Active Member
I have seen that neo looks really nice ,muranker you will answer this for me whats the sensor about , I read if it fails it reverts back to the built in one , so is it a more powerful gyro ?
 

murankar

Staff member
I am guessing its a satellite type setup. If the external loses signal the internal kicks in. I have not done proper reading on it yet. Its still out of my price range. If something happens and I can afford a vcontrol that's my next purchase hands down. I would get the beastx version of the gyro.

Neo had a few different configs that you can buy. One has built in RX and the other has an external RX for other radios. Plus there is the pro vs non pro.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner
 

murankar

Staff member
That's only in the pro edition of the software. The standard software is very limited but has enough functionality to fly.

Vbar is one of those items you have to pay to use. People are willing to pay the extra $50 for the pro. I love the radio interface for programing and tuning.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner
 

murankar

Staff member
I thought the difference from pro and standard is the software on the PC.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner
 
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