KDS Flymentor and 3GX

Graham Lawrie

Well-Known Member
Can you run the two systems together. I am close to setting my 450 Pro 3GX V2 with AR5115e(hopefully this weekend) Being my first build and only spooled up half way, i am concerned about crashing, the shear power of that wee electric motor is awsome. So i saw a few videos of the KDS flymentor and as there are no clubs or experts near me to learn from(getting loads of help on here though:) ) ,and i am wondering if this would be a good move to buy and fit this system??
 

zenmetsu

Member
I do not know about running both systems at once. Someone else may chime in here.

Regarding crashing: it is inevitable. In fact, you crashed when you bought a heli and sealed your fate. :) Don't fear crashing, it will only cause you to be nervous and twitchy on your inputs.

I am not certain that I agree with the use of a flymentor, others will probably agree. While it is nice to have a heli that is rock solid and "hands-off", the problem is that the subtle corrections due to turbulence, etc, will actually speed up the learning process and make you a better pilot. Just watch some of Tony's instructional videos and take it low and slow at first.

Instead of spending money on a flymentor, I would probably buy a simulator and get the flight controls mastered before moving to the physical helicopter. That is just my take. I decided to learn "the hard way" and bought a tiny 250 sized helicopter to learn on, specifically so that I would learn on something that was twitchy and unstable so that I'd learn to hover better. The flymentor is taking the opposite approach in my opinion.
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
Not sure on compatability, but an educated guess would be no, as they command the same things. I'm with Zenmetsu on this one. My first heli was a 450. The month before it arrived, i spent learning as much as i could on the simulator. By the time i got it, i could fly around on the sim no worries. Get some big ass training gear on it and you'll save yourself from most everything as long as you don't go too high.
Here is my first ever flight of an RC Heli 2 years ago.
 
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Tony

Staff member
They will definitely not work together. The flymentor is made to correct the heli, and the 3GX is made to stabilize the heli. While the flymentor is trying to level out the helicopter, the 3GX will be fighting it. It will go into an uncontrollable shake and it will crash.
 

zenmetsu

Member
Oh, well that is good. Phoenix is a great sim. Load up the Trex450 and get your hovering skills up. After you master hover, even if just tail-in orientation, give the simulator some "weather"... turn up the turbulence a bit and give your self some moderate wind (5-10mph) and gusts (15-20mph). It will help you learn how a real helicopter outdoors will behave. If you want, load up a Trex250 and note how much faster it is with regards to cyclic input. If you get used to a 250 and switch back to the 450, you will be shocked by how docile the 450 will feel.

The problem with hovering a helicopter in a single spot is what we call "dirty air". Basically the main blades throw air downwards, and some of that air will loop back around for a second pass. Eventually you get a donut shaped air mass rotating and you create a down-draft that robs your helicopter of lift. This requires additional collective to overcome, and when you suddenly get clean air, the helicopter will rise. This causes an up and down bobbing motion when you are hovering close to the ground.

Also, when you get a gust of wind, the gust will partially nullify this "dirty air" effect and create what is known as translational lift. This will cause your helicopter to suddenly start climbing when a gust of wind from any direction hits it.

I used dirty air in quotes because I feel that the true definition of dirty air is what is known as vortex ring state. This happens when you have very low airspeed and descend through the rotor's own downward wash, causing a stall condition near the rotor hub and a further loss of lift which only increases descent rate and causes the effect to become amplified. This is why most helicopter pilots will land a helicopter like a plane, with forward airspeed and flaring as they near the ground. I haven't experienced this phenomena on my R/C helicopter yet, not sure if it affects small helicopters due to scale.
 

Tony

Staff member
Here is a picture to visulize what he is talking about with Dirty Air, or what's called Ground Effect or Rotor Wash.

Fig_2-38B.gif

Fig_2-38B.gif
 

Graham Lawrie

Well-Known Member
Oh, well that is good. Phoenix is a great sim. Load up the Trex450 and get your hovering skills up. After you master hover, even if just tail-in orientation, give the simulator some "weather"... turn up the turbulence a bit and give your self some moderate wind (5-10mph) and gusts (15-20mph). It will help you learn how a real helicopter outdoors will behave. If you want, load up a Trex250 and note how much faster it is with regards to cyclic input. If you get used to a 250 and switch back to the 450, you will be shocked by how docile the 450 will feel.

The problem with hovering a helicopter in a single spot is what we call "dirty air". Basically the main blades throw air downwards, and some of that air will loop back around for a second pass. Eventually you get a donut shaped air mass rotating and you create a down-draft that robs your helicopter of lift. This requires additional collective to overcome, and when you suddenly get clean air, the helicopter will rise. This causes an up and down bobbing motion when you are hovering close to the ground.

Also, when you get a gust of wind, the gust will partially nullify this "dirty air" effect and create what is known as translational lift. This will cause your helicopter to suddenly start climbing when a gust of wind from any direction hits it.

I used dirty air in quotes because I feel that the true definition of dirty air is what is known as vortex ring state. This happens when you have very low airspeed and descend through the rotor's own downward wash, causing a stall condition near the rotor hub and a further loss of lift which only increases descent rate and causes the effect to become amplified. This is why most helicopter pilots will land a helicopter like a plane, with forward airspeed and flaring as they near the ground. I haven't experienced this phenomena on my R/C helicopter yet, not sure if it affects small helicopters due to scale.

I have been online with Phoenix and tried all sizes of helis and seen the difference in size and response. I have seen the effect of "dirty" air as you callit and that is an excellent way that you explain it. I wiped my model off my TX today and started from scratch and have it all set up ready for the maiden flight tomorrow.

The curious thing for me, and why i started from scratch again, was that when i put my TX on a standard 450 3g on Phoenix it did the same as on the real model when i tried to fly it. My tail was still wrong, but i centred it by bringing both blades together on the tail rotor and they did not line up. I then set the limits and to me it looks good to go.

The only thing i have not done is set up a good beginner pitch and throttle curve. Any suggestions?

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Tony
 
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