450 Gaui X3 Setup issues (electrics, mechanical and zyx-s)

murankar

Staff member
Its been a short time since I have given any updates to my Gaui X3. So far I have had problems with it, not so much the kit just myself and some of my electrics. For the My electrics its been a small battle that I think I have won at the moment.

For the kit I have a bit more setup to get done mechanically. I discovered that my new main shat has some play up and down in it. When to get the shuns and as my luck would have it I cant find the ones I need. In my video for the main shaft build you will see 6 shuns, 3 of a small size and 3 of a bigger size. The 3 bigger ones are for the main and tail drive gears and the 3 smaller ones are for the main shaft play at the gears. Its a little tricky to figure out where the smaller shuns go to take up the play. When deciding on where to shun it you have to look at one thing, tail drive gear mesh with the torque tube. If you have a tight mesh then you will want to shun the top and vise versa if the mesh is to tight.

In my case I have play in both the gears and the main shaft. Since this is the case I will work on the gear spacing first and see if there is still play in the main shaft along with gear mesh with the torque tube gear. If I still have play in the main shaft I will then shun the gears so the gear mesh of the tail drive are more closer to what it should be.

Now for the last issue, gear mesh in the rear tail box. When I assembled the original tail box I had zero play in the gear mesh or very little. They were not tight and they were not loose. After the crash I went and built the spare assembly because I noticed some cracking in the original casing. After I completed the post crash repair I did not fly the kit for some time about 1.5 months so I never went back to check it out. Last Saturday after a few flights I decided to do a thorough once over to check things out. During this look over I found the main shat issue, tail box gear mesh and a loose tail blade grip. The grip was an easy fix, take out the two screws and re thread lock the fasteners.

Before I start playing with the gear mesh in the the tail box I want to see if the other areas of concern will help with locking in the tail. I think the first 2 issues are creating some vibrations that the ZYX-S does not like which could be causing the tail not to lock in fully, or at least it does not feel like it is.


Now for the ZYX-S gyro. Since the crash the gyro still seems to be working. I though for sure that the impact would have broke it considering how cheap the unit is. Right now it is still working and if I can get over my fears I can really get to tuning this thing. I have been having a tail issue, noting like the GA250, it has been drifting tail left nose right since I have had it. On the Protos Mini it cleared up once I went to HH mode. On the Gaui it still does it even when in HH mode. Due to great timing on RCHNs part I got some info from them that has help me dial out some of the drift in the tail, still not perfect. Nick or Justin (not sure which) gave some advise on the tail that I have yet to try, due to lack of knowledge. They had mentioned that if you have a tail right (nose left) drift then its a gain issue and if you have a tail left (nose right) drift its mechanical. There solution to the later is to move the ball link in closer to center on the servo. Since I don't know what the Gaui recommended distance is I have not messed with it. My ball link is still set where it was on the Protos Mini. My other issue is not knowing if Tarot has a recommended location for the ball link. So how did I start to remove some of the drift? Well I went into the droid app with Bluetooth and adjusted the P and I gains. I increased the I gain by 5 and the P gain by 5 and now it feels like it wants to hold but at the same time it feels like it still wants to drift.

I would like to get out and do some test hovers and see if I can get the gyro dialed in while in a hover.

One last issue I just remembered. This could be a moderate issue but dont know how to fix it. During my initial setup I leveled the swash 90 degrees with a swash leveler. then I rotated the blades so they were in line with the boom and nose. I got the pitch to 0 at mid stick and then did my positive and negative pitch along with aileron. Now for the enigma, I then rotated the blades 90 degrees so I can set elevator pitch. Before I did that I check for 0 pitch at mid stick, low and behold its not. So I went through and checked if the airframe was tilted nose down or up and I did not notice anything. Since its been a while since I checked I cant remember if its negative pitch or positive pitch. I want to say it was negative because when I take off it wants to drift backwards.

I know this is a lot of info maybe you all can help in what I am not seeing.
 

murankar

Staff member
My order came in today, spare main blades, main shafts and my shuns. I got the shun installed between the main and tail drive gears, no play at all. Then I installed the shuns for the main shaft, installed on the top of the one way sleeve. It took all three shuns for the main shaft to lock down. As for the tail I tore it down all the way. Reassembled the entire tail and no more play, not sure what did it but the play is gone. Now I have a weird feeling when spinning the head by hand, I think the tail drive gear may need to wear in now.

I will post up the results when I get a chance to get the heli in the air. I think it might be close now will see.

Next is getting the tail tuned now that all the play is gone.
 

murankar

Staff member
Never check really, Except the tail box. The original tail box was fine after the crash, but since i built a new one I didn't check it till after some tuning flights. I was doing a post flight check up making sure everything was still good and found all the play. Now the main shaft is new and that could have been a reason for some of the play in the main shaft. The play in the main gear I think was there from the beginning and just didn't think anything of it at the time. You had to give a good stiff jerk to get the gears to move apart or together. I hope I can get at least one flight in tomorrow to see if it all worked out.
 

murankar

Staff member
Update to the tail box issues, i think they are now solved. I went and matched the smoothest gear mesh and reassembled the tail box. During the reassembly i noticed some binding in the pitch slider links. I must have over did the thread locker when i fixed that part. Took that apart and cleaned the fasteners with acetone and cleaned the plastic with the back of a hobby knife. I will need to check it soon to see if its still moving freely. Right now if I spin the head the tail feels smooth and play is at a minimum.


For the ZYX-S ball link to center distances. I got the manual and these are the measurements suggested by Tarot:

Cyclic
Tail
250
12.5-13mm
4.5mm
450
12.5-13mm
7.5-10mm
500
14-14.5mm
7.5-10mm
600
14.5-15mm
13.5-15mm
Other info that is handy about this gyro:

The tail pitch needs to be close to 8°. Some kits have this already set if your mechanical setup is perfect 90° at both ends with the pitch slider center. Other kits you will need to offset the pitch slider from center to get the required 8°. If this is the case for your kit then you may not have a perfect 90° setup at both ends. If your tail servo is attached to the boom the you may not have many issues, if your tail servo is mounted in the frame then you could have some issues. DO the best you can to get close to 8°.

  • This gyro hates excessive vibrations. I have mine mounted with three layers of foam tape that was provided with the gyro. I also did not get a metal plate with the gyro, so if you think you might need one you may have to find it or make it.
  • As with any Gyro (f.b. or fbl) you will want to set the servo freqs before connecting servos.
  • It is capable of s-bus, but additional components maybe required, so do your research
  • It has a built in governor, same as s-bus (additional hardware required); not sure of how well it works but it is there if you want to try it.
  • It has to modes that are programmable. Condition 1 and Condition 2, this can be found on the andriod app if you got the Bluetooth module.
  • Operates at DC 3.5v - 9v
  • Supports firmware upgrades

That is the quick and dirty of the gyro. If you feel that I am missing something let me know what it is and I will make every effort to add what it is you need. Also if anyone feels that this info is helpful and should be upgraded to an article/how-to let the admins know so it can be upgraded.
 

murankar

Staff member
I got out and hovered 1 pack. The tail seems to be doing better. Got the gain turned up to 45 and still no wags at my lowest head speed.

When I first took off the tail was in rate mode. I forgot to switch over to head hold. The gain got adjusted to -40 and no wag also.

Switched to hear hold and the nose still wanted to drift right. Adjust the sub trim in the gyro and it stated holding better.

The wind was not ideal for doing set up stuff. It was very turbulent and very unpredictable. So I quit after 1 pack.

As for the bounciness of the head. It seemed to be more locked in. Again the wind was less than ideal for this.

Hopefully during the next few days I hope to finish the tuning.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner
 

murankar

Staff member
I got in three packs today just for tuning. The wind was calm and the sun is shinning. So I figured I would have a shot at getting some gains dialed in. This image has a bunch of stuff check so you can see the numbers. I was not really trying to post this for the graph, its a mess with all the stuff checked. Hear is the data log for the esc from my 2nd Pulse Ultra pack:

PulseUltraPack2-flight-17.jpg

I did some adjusting in the ESC before going out. I started the LVC at 3.8v soft cut. After 15 logged flights I decided to decrease the LVC to 3.7v soft cut. Before I was getting 6 minute flights with 50% to 55% pack consumed. This was mostly in Normal flight mode and for flights 16 and 17 I went to IU2 to see what would happen with not only the gains but the flight time. So I went for a to hover flights to check and adjust the rough gains and got this set in fairly well. I then was giving guick (sloppy) jabs at the cyclic to see what would happened and made the adjustments as needed. Now for collective, I did not see any negative stuff at the time but it did respond quite well. I am pleased with what I got and I am finally starting to get into the swing of things. Not nervous on spool-ups and control.

The tail gain is set at around 45% to 47%. I have never had the gains that high on this kit with out wag. What issue I do have is a slight nose right tail left drift that might be caused by head torque or setup. I have lengthened the push rod 2 turn on the end and added 2 points of sub trim in the gyro. It is getting better but I need to really figure out how to solve it. I think I may need to add pre-comp i think, I find out on Saturday when I have the experienced pilots around.


other things I need to adress on Saturday is my pitch setup. I think it is wacked out right now and I will explain on Saturday after we get to field. So far I am pleased with this kit. Durability seams to be spot on since I crashed it.

P.S.
The max numbers are a result of the life time of the ESC. I have auto rest turned off.

PulseUltraPack2-flight-17.jpg
 
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murankar

Staff member
So lets back up about 24 hours before i explain today's endeavors. Gaba assisted me in getting my setup more locked in with a digital pitch gauge. I did not go any further than just setting up mid stick. Went and flew it with now issues. Now Gaba also discovered that my aileron servo is just a weee bit more stiff than the rest. I had not noticed it since it is very slight and it has not really affected the flights I have had.

Now for today, I switched out the Gaui 325mm blades for the Rail 326 blades (Botos blades). Next I finished up the setup with my arcane setup and bumped up the collective pitch by 2°. Now I am sitting at 13° +/- for collective. Now after doing some math my Max head speed should be around 2924 with an 80% efficiency at 11.1v; at 12.2v (full charge) I am at around 3214 rpm. Now my IU1 is now set at 65% and my IU2 is now at 75%. If my math is right at 75% of 3214 is 2410 which I think is still pretty high for me. Just in case you want to know here is my setup:
  • 11.1v nominal voltage
  • 131 main gear
  • 11T pinion

Back to this pitch deal I am working on. So like I said I am now at 13° pitch and my cyclic is 10° for aileron and elevator. I am not to sure as to how I should have this setup with the numbers I have, but let me tell you this bird now has some agility with the gyro set to hard 3d. I think its time to set the gyro back to soft 3d and start there got my gains, agility, and advanced gains. I cant believe just how much more alive the X3 is at this setup. Its almost uncontrollable because of the vertical pull it has now. I actually can get the heli to land soft on short autos. If you start and auto at about 5 to 10 feet and give negative 1-2° collective till just before landing and shift to positive at the last minute and this thing will float to the ground, WOW FLOAT :banana:. This is the first time I have had a 450 do that for me so I don't know if its just the blades, just the collective range or both. I do know that these blades will float just a little bit more just because they are bigger by 1mm, apparently this makes a huge difference. As for the pitch I am sure this also helped in the over all performance. Yesterday this kit was sluggish with slow responses, now this thing is awake and humming. Now I really need to get to a field so I can tune this gyro.


Now for the tail; with my current setup I had to increase the I gain 5 points to 55. This took care of a bounce after a quick jab of the rudder. I still have a sligh very slight drift, nose right. It seems to have gotten a little better becuas I added to points to the sub trim in the gyro to give more pitch and I think the head speed may have helped out also, cant say for sure. Once I bump the settings to soft 3d I am sure I will have tail issues that will need to be tuned out in the PID settings.

So in a nut shell as of 05-18-2014 I am getting closer to completed. I need to check the gears in the one servo to see if they are bad or not, work on the tune but that requires me to be at a field flying forward flight and find that sweet spot for collective pitch. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Currently I am charging my rx pack so nothing is going on right now but I will soon be in the air again. I wish I would have filmed my last flight because it almost flipped on me because of the wind, I saved it by giving hard rear elevator to drop the tail and boy those blades really dug in. The noise just when from a regular noise to a sudo blade fart (well the best for a 450-460). I am now at the point where I will need to go to a field just to fly.
 

heli-maniac

New Member
You couldnt wait to put them blades on there ( Wait were did you get Rail blades from HE HE Just kidding hope you in joy them Buddy)
Just keep at it it will get there
 

murankar

Staff member
Yeah there was this smarty pants there that graciously gave them to me. Oh that was you, thank you again. I think this new setup is going to re kindle my nervousness.
So far with the 8 minutes of air time, love em.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner
 

heli-maniac

New Member
Its all Good I ended up getting A FREE Synergy shirt and a 20% off rail blades coupon wile you and Gaba were out flying your last flights
 

murankar

Staff member
Made some more progress on the Gaui. I got my new motor shaft in and fitted the 12T pinion on it.

Now for the fun part, rebuilding the motor. First since the 11T is green thread locked i had to pull the old shaft out from the can. This particular 2221-8 was not press fitted. Good news is there was a flat on the shaft and two set screws.

Shaft out and cans apart, what next? Well inspect the bearings blah blah blah. Got the bearings cleaned and oiled. Looked at the spring washers and they were toast. Scorpion packs a lot of stuff in a shaft replacement kit. Got 2 new set screws to lock the shaft to the outer can, 2 spring washers and 2 c clips. Got the motor together with new pinion and debating on thread locking the pinion to the shaft.

All thats left now is some charged packs and some flights. Really interested in seeing what my new head speed will be and how it will handle 13° of pitch. This motor was handling it just fine on 2700 rpms. The amp draw during collective changes were fairly low, maybe 10 amps through the esc at a time. The motor can handle 45 amps continuously.

I am thinking of changing back to the Gaui blades until i feel confident enough to fly the rails.

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murankar

Staff member
Well my trials and tribulations continue. I am now up to 33 flights on her. I have gotten 6 or so flights in with the new pinion. Now this thing has some head speed. At this point i will need to drop my pitch back to 10 or 11. At this new head speed its very responsive, so much so that its almost unmanageable.

On the new setup the ideal throttle curve is at 60 my range is -100 - 100. Anything higher and my gyro gains need to be lowered and i want them to be as high as possible for now. So at 60% throttle my gains are at 50 and i also set P and I gains to 90, they started at 80 default.

Now for the PITA part. Not sure whats going on but the esc is acting up. The motor from time to time will chirp instead of spool up. If i wait a few seconds it then will spool up. Sometimes its not that simple and i have to really work at it to get it to work.

With the pitch and head speed setup i have not really go out to really fly. Once i drop the pitch i will go and video another flight. It will be one of the last flights of that day. I want to be calm and relaxed before i shoot the video.

So that's my update for now. Hope i get this things sorted soon.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner
 

murankar

Staff member
I thin k I may have goofed on something in the motor during the rebuild of it. After my one hover today I noticed the motor was extremely hotter than normal. This tells me that something is not running efficient or pulling to many amps. So I waited for the motor to cool down for a bit before commencing the tear down. I got the motor out of the air frame and started looking at the outer stuff to see if anything was a miss. I noticed the c clip had popped out of the notch in the shaft. So what happened was I had to spring washers on the shaft. One inside at the bottom and one outside on top. This made the can to tight even though it spun fine by hand. So I removed the top outer spring washer and reset the c clip now to charge packs and see if it makes a difference.
 

murankar

Staff member
Erika I think I figured out my tail drift issue, setup. I reset the gyro subtrim back to where it should be and hovered it. Of course it drifted clockwise like it had been doing. I decided to give the push rod 2 full turns, hovered and still drifted. I went and did two more full turns on the push rod, hovered and it was almost done drifting. Landed and did one more full turn, hovered and now it was drifting counter clockwise, more like wanting to pyro instead. Landed undid the last full turn and bumped up the gyro sub trim two clicks, hovered and still drifted clockwise but not nearly as bad as it was. Landed and added 2 more clicks of gyro sub trim and hovered and I think the drift is gone.

I think today's temps are a bit high because the motor still is getting hotter than normal even after redoing the motor. Nothing else is getting hot just the motor so lets see what happens in a little bit after the temps start to drop.
 

heli-maniac

New Member
Sounds like your getting some time in on that thing . Wish I could say I was doing the same the 550 is sitting here with its new FBL unit waiting to be flown. The Fusion is waiting on its new FBL unit and Sats to show up
Hey you want this FBL unit I got all you have todo is set it up with a regular rx
 

murankar

Staff member
Ill give it a shot. See how it works compared to the ZYX-S. I am hoping for something that does not have any drift. The ZYX-S works but I dont have enough knowledge to get it more locked in.

I now have 36 flights on this kit and now I am in the process of charge a second pack for two more flights. If these two flights go smooth I think it will be field time to see what I can do.
 
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