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ESC First Time Governor Set Up. To Gov Or Not To Gov?

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by leedude1, Jun 7, 2019.

< Wanting To Understand Lipos | Charge Case Mod >
  1. leedude1

    leedude1 Member

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    Ok folks as mentioned last week Im looking to dabble in to governor and see how how it works. I have looked through some of the posts and saw others that there are others similar to me in that I dont really push my flying too much and the fixed throttle curves for Idle up etc work fine right now and I dont hate them.

    Having said that I would like to see what its all about and maybe try it on my 450l Dominator 6s and then move on from there if like it to the Gaui, and the others. So I may ask questions for the different birds at once so as not to go over everything twice later and it will then allow me to reference back if I need to when working on those eg ; my 700x that will be running a bec and has white sensor wire, with cut of switches blah blah blah that maybe a little more complex.. This will probably be of use to others as a reference moving forward as well.

    So lets begin, I was asked for some deets;

    ALIGN 450l Trex dominator 6s
    Align RCE- BL45x esc
    AR7200BX fbl with satellite
    Radio DX8 G2
    Servos stock align DS416m cyclic and stock DS 525m tail.

    So the esc for this does not come with a rpm sensor.

    Question #1:

    My understanding from my readings is each component has a gov both the esc and the fbl unit.. is there a benefit to using one over the other? does it make difference? why? and for this set up which should be used.
     
  2. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    If I'm flying electric, I always use the ESC gov. If I'm flying nitro, then I will always use the gyro gov.
     
  3. leedude1

    leedude1 Member

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    Ok so on my set up if I use the esc Gov.. I leave the beastx as normal or off on the Gov settings as head speed driven by an external element being the esc.

    Then I go to my esc set up and select heli 2 gov mode. Instructions state not suitable for Normal mode and I1 should 75% and I2 85%.

    Does that mean it is not active in Normal mode so TX throttle values are being used eg 0...35..50. ..70..etc..
    Then set I1 and I2 at the listed values and it will then try to hold those?
     
  4. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    You can set it up in Normal mode, but you MUST know how to use throttle hold to kill the helicopter. @Geena flies like this if I remember correctly. If you are not comfortable with using throttle hold, then you need to leave that turned off. If you are, then you can leave it turned on.

    And use what they suggest. IU2 at 85 is so that there is some overhead that the esc can use to add power to the motor to keep the headspeed up. I know you are wanting to try this because you have never done it, but on a small electric helicopter that isn't being pushed hard, a simple flat or V curve is really all I use.
     
  5. Geena

    Geena Moderator Staff Member

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    Try an aerospire governor, and you`ll change your mind about using the gyro governor...just sayin`. ;)
     
  6. Geena

    Geena Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, I have my nitro governor set up in normal mode, but it is set up not to engage until 40% throttle is reached. You can set it up to engage at 10 or 20% throttle, and it won`t hurt anything. As long as you have zero throttle at low stick, in normal mode (which you HAVE to have on a nitro) the engine will still go back to idle when the stick is lowered , and the governor will disengage.
     
  7. leedude1

    leedude1 Member

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    I only use normal mode to take off and land and not for flight as such.
    So can I just set up normal throttle curves in normal mode which will not then be governed? Or am am I confusing something.

    And it when I flip into I1 or 2 with the set 75 85 in the TX will it be governed? Some how this is sounding way to easy.
     
  8. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    I have a feeling that you are doing what I was doing when I first got into using a gov. Way over thinking it. I was thinking there were PID controls (which there are, but you will never touch them in most cases with most setups), complicated equations to get the perfect head speed and so on. In reality, you just turn it on, set it to a standard setting (75 and 85 in your example) and try it. If 1 is too low or high, adjust it. If 2 is too high or low, adjust it. Just don't go over about 90% so you have some head room.

    As for normal, you can do what you like. I run a flat curve on everything, including no gov setups. My normal on my small heli's is usually something like 0 65 65 65 65. I can still kill the motor with low throttle, but before it is out of negative pitch, I'm at full head speed. I never suggest running a linear curve on any setting, it can mess with the tail horribly.
     
  9. leedude1

    leedude1 Member

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    I think you may be right Tony, its just that. Call it fear of the unknown.

    :dizzy: I think its just that everything has a "governor" field in it that it makes it seem like Im missing something. eg; the radio has a governor setting ...

    I know the Castles on my bigger birds, have tooth counts, motor poles and gain settings , motor KV etc that have to be entered and there are the gov gains that can be played with. Yet with this one, it looks like just put it on and fly... the only setting I see from what ive read in the manual is either Quick speed (reaction) or Medium speed on the heli 2 gov mode. My assumption is how aggressively/quickly it will attempt to maintain the head speed but im not not sure.

    Also do I need to reduce gyro gain or just try it first and fiddle with the settings later?
     
  10. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    It will be quick. Meaning fractions of a second to adjust the head speed. You will only lower the reaction if you are getting motor oscillations on high, or raise it if you are getting hunting on low. If you are really worried about it (and rightfully so), take all of the blades off and spool it up. You should hear it speed up past the set point, and then come back down. It will be fast, but with the blades on it will be a little slower.
     
  11. leedude1

    leedude1 Member

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    Ok yeah I think ill give that a whirl (pun intended) just to see the reaction speed looks like and how this is going to work. Then start with the quick settings and give it try when the wife's job list is done.:waa: like in 2 weeks. :duh::emono::emomad:LOL.

    Let you know how the bench test works, im curious.
     
  12. leedude1

    leedude1 Member

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    Ok so I set up the align esc gov as per the manual and put in I1 at 75% and I2 at 80%.
    Tony I removed the blades but didnt really see an over speed on the head .. I think I'll have to put it in the air to see what happens.

    Is there anything I need to look out for? Or because I'm not really throwing it around hard , I wont see much in terms of flight characteristics?
     
  13. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    You will likely want a little more of a spread in range between 1 and 2. The Align gov may not over speed slightly like castle does. I'm not even sure if it has gov store. But if the no blade spool up worked out okay, then I would take it out and see how it does.
     
  14. leedude1

    leedude1 Member

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    Ok thanks Tony' I'll move I2 to 85% that's the max that the manual allows. This is probably to account for the head room space you mentioned earlier.

    When setting it up last night I realised the ar7000bx doesn't even have a governor anyway so it was Esc or nothing. It starts only in the next model the Ar7210bx.

    I double checked and confirmed all the Esc settings ,and all good, so in theory everything is in order. Just the flight test remaining.

    I'll let you know when I get that done.
     
  15. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    Can't wait. And I have never even heard of an ar7000bx. I konw the ar7200bx has a governor, I have used it on Murphy. Works pretty good. But, be sure to load that head up with some good pitch pumps.
     
  16. leedude1

    leedude1 Member

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    Ha your right Tony my bad, the beastx is in fact .. Ar7200BX... typo on my part .

    I said No Gov because I saw nothing in the AR7200bx manual on it at all. It goes from pitch boost, to warrantee, to German:biglaugh:, whereas the AR7210bx has an entire section devoted to it.. I just guessed that was the difference between the two.

    I got 2 flights in before sunset tonight..I had to reduce the gyro setting a few points due to wag . I hadn't seen your note on the pitch pumps until now Tony so they will need to wait.. I just pushed it around a bit and did a couple of flips and everything was happily uneventful. But im still early on in the season and trying to shake of the snow webs :biggrin-new: so Im going to push it next time out and see how she handles loading the head and what things look and feel like when she adjusts trying to maintain the head speed.


    So Ill fly some packs through this before i try to get the Castle talon and the 550 on board with a governor.

    Tony any idea what the governor settings in the radio are for? DX8G2 and how they are to be used? I looked through the DX manual and.........of course...nothing... not even a mention in the index but its there on the radio.


    Anyway thanks for the guidance and sharing of knowledge guys always much appreciated. You always help me move the needle a little further in the hobby people.:applouse:
     
  17. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    Castle gov sucks. If you can avoid it. Go with an external.


    Keep in mind that while using a governor your tail my get some negative tendencies. This is an artifact of an out of tune governor not FBL unit. Both of my oxys got tail issues right off the rip once I got the governor turned on. So just be ready .
     
  18. leedude1

    leedude1 Member

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    On the align gov there are no settings. Except quick and medium speed adjust.
    And no mention in the 7200bx for gov at all so ..I'll see what she does next time out.

    So you suggest using the bestx gov in the 7210bx vs the talon 90?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  19. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    The governor in the AR7200BX was an update after it came out. It is actually a mandatory setting that you have to do even if you are not going to use it. I cover this in one of my videos, I will see if I can find it. I don't think I ever actually did a governor setup video with the BX though. I think we moved to the Ikon shortly after getting Murphy in the air.
     
  20. leedude1

    leedude1 Member

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    Wow ok good to know Tony.
     
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