Cant Hover in phoenix

[sterlingh]

Did not want to hijack another thread to say/ask this question. Why is it I am not able to hover in Phoenix? I know the first initial reaction will be to say "because it's more realistic", and more difficult to master hovering. I get that and actually believe that's probably correct. However be that it may, I got pretty good at hovering in clearview. But let me tell you in Phoenix I just cannot get it. I am wondering if my settings are correct, I am basically using the default settings though I have made some changes but with no success. If its me okay, I'll stay at it, but it does not seem like my sticks are very sensitive. By the time my heli goes in the direction ( usually counter ) I wanted to its picked up a lot of momentum and I've lost it in no time.

Oh well have to go out for a while but will try some more later. Anybody have any ideas? Again, if it's me okay, but did/does anybody else have this problem?

Thanks

 

[stokke]

It took me some time as well to figure out the settings in Phoenix.
The trick is setting up your Tx before calibrating it into the simulator.

This is what I did to get the most out of Tx adjustments;
In your Tx's model memory (I just call mine "simulator"), make sure BEFORE calibrating the Tx:

Servo travel is set to max, both negative and positive movement. On my DX7S; the max travel is 150%.
Do this for AIL, ELE, PIT and RUD.

Also, set D/R to max. On my DX7S; the max D/R is 125%.
Expo is to be set at 100%.
All other functions is to be set at default, and of course; the swash should initially have been set to 1 SERVO 90 deg.

When this is done, go ahead and do the transmitter calibration in Phoenix. If you've already done it before, just click "add new transmitter" from the menu.

When the calibration is successful, go ahead and test that everything works on one of the helis.
I you are able to fly it, then good. If not, then you've done something wrong.

NOW YOU TUNE IT DOWN TO YOUR SKILL LEVEL

ON TX:

Set servo travel back to 100%
D/R to 100%
Set an expo on about 25% on both AIL and ELE. Tweak this to your preference at a later time.

ON SIM:

Simulator speed: 100%
Model adjust: 50% (intermediate).

Now the model should be very manageable for a newbie.
As you get better you increase the Model adjust slider in the menus.

When you eventually hit 100% (expert) on model adjust, you start to increase servo travel.

Hope this is clear!

 

[sterlingh]

Thanks Marius,

Couple of things.
1. You say "Servo travel is set to max, both negative and positive movement. On my DX7S; the max travel is 150%.
Do this for AIL, ELE, PIT and RUD."......Are you referring to the "Travel Adj" if so mine only goes to 125% for THRO,ELEV,GYRO,RUDD,PITC. I think you may be referring to somewhere else but i dont know where.

2. You say "Also, set D/R to max. On my DX7S; the max D/R is 125%.
Expo is to be set at 100%." My bad, but again, I not seeing this on my DX6I.. Do you mean D/R& expo? If so in that menu I have AILE,ELEV,RUDD.. that's it, and no EXPO...

Thanks

 

[stokke]

Thanks Marius,

Couple of things.
1. You say "Servo travel is set to max, both negative and positive movement. On my DX7S; the max travel is 150%.
Do this for AIL, ELE, PIT and RUD."......Are you referring to the "Travel Adj" if so mine only goes to 125% for THRO,ELEV,GYRO,RUDD,PITC. I think you may be referring to somewhere else but i dont know where.

2. You say "Also, set D/R to max. On my DX7S; the max D/R is 125%.
Expo is to be set at 100%." My bad, but again, I not seeing this on my DX6I.. Do you mean D/R& expo? If so in that menu I have AILE,ELEV,RUDD.. that's it, and no EXPO...

Thanks

"Travel Adj" sounds right, at least if you found it under servo settings. If it goes to 125%, that's good enough.

I'm sure you've got the right menu for D/R & Expo there. Only you don't know how to switch between adjusting Expo and D/R. Now, I have never used a DX6 before, so maybe you could post a pic of your D/R&Expo menu?

 

[sterlingh]

Ok here you go. I think I am on same page as you maybe.. lol here are 4 pics. have a look and thanks..

 

[callsign4223]

Hey sterling, the first number in the d/r & expo screen is your dual rate. The second number is your expo. Dual rate controls how far of maximum throw the end of stick movement is. For example, a dual rate of 70 would mean that at full stick throw the servo has gone 70% of the way to it's normal full range. Expo makes the movement at center stick more refined, and less linear. So a 30% expo would give you smaller servo movements at mid stick and then speed up servo towards the end of the stick throw.(I figured you already knew most of this, but who knows who else might find the explanations helpful)

 

[sterlingh]

Hey Matt thanks.
Actually no I did not know all of what you are saying. I am still learning from the start mode. lol

In the D/R&EXPO menu I have 0's for each of the AILE, ELEV,and the last one, RUDD, as the 1st numbers.( I guess there are the 1st set of numbers you mean)

I dont seem to be able to change the 0's (1st number). I can scroll thru and change the second number which is defaulted to 100%. I am not able to create neg numbers with this set of numbers.

I then can change the "INN" to numbers and go pos or neg with numbers. So is this correct? Shouldn't I be able to change the 1st numbers? The 1st numbers as I am referring to I can not highlight therefore not change..

Thanks people for your help getting me thru these most elementary knowledge.

 

[callsign4223]

You need to turn off the inhibit. Then you should be able to change the first numbers I think. They are definately changeable. I may have to look at my dx6i tonight if that doesn't fix it for you.

 

[Tony]

In your pitctures, I will be referencing exactly how it looks. Meaning "AILE 0 100% INH"

The first part is your control, in this example it's AILE or Aileron. It's also the AIL switch that will activate this.

The second number (0) is your switch position. When you flip the Ail switch this will turn into a 1

The third number is your Dual Rate (D/R). You can turn this down to 70% or so to reduce the total servo movement as Matt stated.

The last part of it (INH) is your Expo. You can go two different directions here, positive and negative. NEVER GO NEGATIVE! You can scroll over to the INH and move to about 35% Expo to reduce or soften the beginning throws of the stick to servo movement. However, Expo means "Exponential" and the servo movement will get faster as you move the stick more and more up to 100% stick movement.

 

[callsign4223]

Thanks tony, I knew I was missing something in my explanation.

 

[Tony]

It's all good. After using the DX6i for a while, you forget that there is a 0/1 that changes with switch position. I had to look at the pictures just to figure that out lol.

I did forget to talk about hovering in Phoenix though. Clearview, being that it's a great sim for $40, still has it's flaws. The physics are not as good as they are in Phoenix and with you not being able to hover in the sim just shows this fact. RealFlight and Phoenix are made to act just like a real heli in just about every aspect. Not being able to hover in the sim is a good thing since you are not finding this out in the real world.

It takes practice to get into a stable hover and even more practice to do FF. You will crash a lot but thankfully there is a reset button in the sim.

I would read up on the manual and find out what settings you need to put into that DX6i and what settings you should have in teh sim and go from there. Once you are up and hovering, then you can go in and start making changes to the controls to suit your needs.

 

[sterlingh]

Hot dang, ok got it.. Should have, but did not know to flip the appropriate switch to change the control number. Now I seem to be able to move this anyway I like and I thank you guys a great deal..

 

[Tony]

It's what we do . It takes time bro, but you did the right thing picking up one of the best simulators out there. This will save you so much money in the long run that it's hard to put in words. I would never be able to fly if it was not for the sim.

 

[stokke]

Hey, Sterling. Sorry I'm so late to reply. (Been out flying the real deal )

By reading the above responses, I see I took for granted you'd know the stuff I was referring to - sorry!
Seeing that you now have been educated in D/R and Expo, I guess you should be able to set the values I have provided.

BTW, pic no. 3 is the servo travel, and you've set it up correct

Now you only have to set up D/R to max and expo to 0, and you're ready to calibrate the Tx over again.
Feel free to post follow up questions

 

[sterlingh]

Just seeing your last post Tony. Yes I kinda thought that may be the case that this Phoenix sim was much more true than CV and most likely what causing my frustration. I thought I would check just to make sure I didn't have something off though.

Which manual you talking about for knowing what settings to start with? I skimmed the Phoenix manual and dont think I found any info like that. Maybe the DX6I manual? Nicely surprised to see you in here early than usual today Tony.

Thanks

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LOL now I am just seeing your post Marius, Anyway thanks and I am going to set it up with your numbers and take it from there.

 

[Tony]

Yeah, i'm on here a little early today. I dont' have to work tonight so if I fall asleep due to lack of sleep it's no big deal lol. Thought I would jump on here and get to know my members again hahaha.

In your Travel Adj menu, put those back to 100%. I don't see a need to raise them up any further and that may be causing your issues. It's actually moving the servos beyond 100% (so to speak) and could make it twitchy.

 

[sterlingh]

Ok will do Tony, Bet your glad to get a day off. Man this opens up a whole new world lol Question and as usaual it exposes me to the newness I be. I dont care though. So why is there a second setting in the D/R &Expo? In other words, you can make settings for it at 0 and at 1. So in effect flip the switch and you can have a different settings? I guess this would be what one might want in 3 d flight mode?

 

[stokke]

Yes I kinda thought that may be the case that this Phoenix sim was much more true than CV and most likely what causing my frustration.

LOL now I am just seeing your post Marius, Anyway thanks and I am going to set it up with your numbers and take it from there.

Good.
If you calibrate the Tx with the provided settings, adjust Sim Speed and Model Adjust. Then trim down the servo travel, D/R and add expo you'll see flying will get much easier.

I'll try to explain what your doing with my settings:

When Phoenix see's the FULL extent of signal (servo signal from 0% - 125%), you'll have the maximum possible room for adjusting your Tx when beginning to fly. For example; The Sim see's 125% as max, and therefore if you apply full stick forward (right stick) the bird will tilt/pitch forwards with extreme speed (VERY AGILE). But THEN you go in your servo settings, tune the servo travel to for example 100%. The Sim see's 100%, and knows there is 25% more to take from, but that you are not going use those 25% extra. Therefore; when applying full stick forwards this time, the bird will not tilt/pitch forwards with such extreme speed (LESS AGILE).

The reason for using 125% instead of using 100% when calibrating, is that it enables you to fine tune more.
Setting D/R to max before calibrating, works pretty much the same way it did with the servo travel.

So as an example:

Phoenix knows that there are 125% available of servo travel.
But you've set 70% servo travel in your Tx.
This makes a much more manageable bird.

Phoenix knows that there are 125% available D/R.
You can use whatever D/R percentage you'd prefer.

Add some expo, for example 20% on both Aileron and Elevator.
This makes hovering much easier (and delicate flying).

Click MODEL > EDIT.
Click SIMPLE down on the left.
Use the circular slider to adjust the heli difficulty set-up. 50% is recommended for beginners.

Also;
Click SYSTEM > PROGRAM SETUP > PHYSICS
Make sure Simulation Speed is set to 100%.

You're now ready to fly!

 

[Tony]

Ok will do Tony, Bet your glad to get a day off. Man this opens up a whole new world lol Question and as usaual it exposes me to the newness I be. I dont care though. So why is there a second setting in the D/R &Expo? In other words, you can make settings for it at 0 and at 1. So in effect flip the switch and you can have a different settings? I guess this would be what one might want in 3 d flight mode?

Yes and no. Lets use my planes for example. I have a 50" Edge 540 that has a 50º deflection on every control surface. If I was doing something like an Unlimited 3D comp, I would want the controls to be as snappy as I could get them. So I would set it up to be very twitchy. However when I take off and land, I dont' want this twitchyness and would like to have a way to tame the plane down. This is where flipping the switch comes into play. YOu can have one setting for aggressive flying, and one that is very tame to get it in the air and to bring it back. In your case, you will more than likely keep it on the tame setting the whole time when learning.

 

[sterlingh]

Ok Tony, got it and hal a lu ya it makes sense..

Marius looking at your post now... Thanks

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Ok Marius I see what you are saying. Very good. I am experimenting now and seeing lots of subtle changes. I have something to work with.I am very glad I ask, because now I wont feel like I could be learning the wrong way..