450 can someone explain Rate mode and HH mode again please.

[orbi]

Hi guys
I know im goin backwards in asking why do we have 2 modes HH mode and rate mode, I know HH where the gyro itself forces the tail to stay to a heading (that was interrupted by wind or outside forces etc.) So what does the gyro do in rate mode? What is rate mode for? Ive heard that a 450 heli should be in HH mode ( the red light being on, on the gyro) if this is the case why do I need Rate mode. All I know is rate mode centres the servo arm. Ive clearly missed something...Ive seen some of Tonys vids which are great but they dont explain in depth my query. I need a vid maybe on this one thing!
Thanks guys im sooooooooooo green!

 

[breeze400]

Well I'm not the most learned guy to try to explain but, here goes one. Say if your into flying scale models. You will fly in rate mode. It flys the heli more like the real deal. People who just do not get into 3 d flying use rate mode. It's a bit harder to fly in rate mode cause you don't have the gyro to compensate for wind, exc. exc. by for a more realistic looking flight scutch has flying scale. Rate mode is where it's at. That's one way to use rate mode. I'm sure there are others too.

 

[DAL2855]

So then Breeze, what you're saying is that in rate mode, just like in a real helicopter, you have to input the tail mix to hold your heading then? Whereas in HH mode, the gyro does it for you automatically?

 

[breeze400]

Something like that!

 

[murankar]

Rate mode will only stop the tail from moving. You will loose your heading in the process.

Head hold (HH) will lock in a heading and the gyro will attempt to maintain that heading until stick input is given. HH will give a more locked in feeling on the tail.

And yes rate mode us for scale flying while HH mode is for everything else.

 

[Lee]

Totally a scale thing. The heli will act like a weather vain. So any induced wind by the heli moving forward or by the actual wind hitting the heli, will cause the nose to point into wind.

 

[pvolcko]

In rate mode the gyro will correct somewhat. Instead of trying to hold a position, it will attempt to hold a rate of change (hence calling it Rate Mode). So if, for instance, you were doing a doing a piro, the gyro would still attempt to hold the rate of rotation of the tail where you are inputting it. If a cross wind were encountered for some of the rotation it would attempt to compensate by dialing in more pitch for the upwind and less for the downwind section of the piro. It would not be exact, however, and it will not hold a position for very long. In wind, for instance, it will tend to drift around and you will have to correct it yourself. Even without wind, the small adjustments you make for hovering position will cause the torque to vary and thus the tail will drift around unless you are in a dead clam day with a totally hands off hover and you have the neutral rudder position tail control link length dialed in perfectly to compensate for the hover torque. This doesn't happen for but a couple of seconds so you will always be making small adjustments to the rudder too, in addition to the elev/ail/col.

I don't know if scale flyers use rate mode or not. I know I wouldn't be. A lot of money tied up in those things. I'd want all the electronic help I could get.

That said, I've accidentally flown my helis in rate mode. I sometimes forget to flip the switch back when resetting tail to center or testing something on the ground. It can be a little confusing at first if you aren't expecting it. Especially if you do not have your tail control rod length and neutral blade pitch dialed in. It's interesting.

My quad from 2001-2 also has three rate mode gyros in it. It's a bit of a handful to fly, nothing like the fully stabilized ones around today.

 

[DAL2855]

I've been using HH mode for scale flying so that it's a little less TX stuff to have to remember to do. I do however have the rate mode setup in the TX but read somewhere that new RC pilots should start out with HH mode and leave it at that! So that's pretty much what I have done!

 

[orbi]

thanks guys ... but im a newbie... I have a 450 Pro and a Plus ( think thats a sport RTF ) anyways ive wondered f the rate /switch made anydifference as it switched between green and red .... I was told green for 500 and bigger and red for 450 and under. I have it switched between 30%-70% at 0 (green) and at 1 it is 70% and 30% and its on Red. when you dial in and adjust the % numbers the light will auto change red to green and vsa versa around the 50/50 mark.
Im only hovering at the mo. with stabalizers but when im on grass the balls dig in and get a jumping or leaping left when im about to lift. I ve tried it on a road and find its easier to steady as I can see where the torque is and which direction it wants to " float" to and so I can correct and contain the movement to get me up and not side wards.
Am i taking too long in getting it up and am i worried too much in getting t perfect rather than just getting it up without messing around too much. It takes me nearly 2 batteries to get to the confidence point where I can get the tiniest of hovers like about a foot but I must admit they are rock steady and dont move much. Should I just go for a 2ft hover without much of the faffing about.? Getting it up is my biggest prob. lol

 

[DAL2855]

Yeah I know what you mean Orbi, I do exactly the same thing, wanting it to lift straight up instead of just inputting collective and getting into the air. But also comes with time and experience knowing how the bird is going to react once it becomes airborne and what inputs to use to correct it immediately so that you don't lose control of the bird and crash it. Also not over correcting as well!

 

[corsair_pilot]

I'm lead to believe from a video that westy has done, that with a flybarred heli, just as the heli is about to lift off, it will want to drift left. Once we got up in the air, it stabilised.
I think with flybarless the lift off is much neater with less drift assuming gyro's etc been set up neatly

 

[DAL2855]

They want to drift left because of the airflow from the tail rotor is why the heli wants to drift left upon lift off!

 

[Tony]

I'm lead to believe from a video that westy has done, that with a flybarred heli, just as the heli is about to lift off, it will want to drift left. Once we got up in the air, it stabilised.
I think with flybarless the lift off is much neater with less drift assuming gyro's etc been set up neatly

There is the same forces with each flybared and flybarless heli that causes it to go left. None of them have to do with a gyro. It's the force of the air being forced out to the right to counter the rotational force of the main blades that causes it to go to the left. And the reason they all go to the left on take off is because they are sitting on skids. The skids make the heli want to sit level, but if you look at a heli in a hover, it's leaning just slightly to the right to counter the tail blade. Training gear will make it want to go left even worse.

For ever action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. This goes for everything on a heli.

As for Rate vs HH mode, I think that was answered. Rate mode ONLY stops the tail from being forced to move whereas HH mode will bring the tail back to the heading that it started at. Also, in HH mode, when you give a stick input, it will keep pitch on teh tail blades until it reaches the heading that you just told it to go to whereas with rate mode, it will only hold the tail blades at an angle as long as you are holding the stick that direction.

 

[taizi]

orbi, dont worry your doing everything right, it took me along time to get take off's and higher hovering right because i was always afraid of crashing,

my advice is when your ready, is to lift off with abit more throttle than your used to, so that the blades are spinning that much quicker (makes it abit more stable) and expect a slight drift to the left as it raises, then get it to at least head height, because the closer to the ground you are the more "wash" you get from the blades, once its about 3-4 ft up the wash shouldnt be there and the heli will react much better and wont bouce around, also at head height it gives you a chance just to check things like blade balance and pitch

the 2 main things ive learned about flying helis is,
1 makes sure you have spares ready of at least things that go in crashes i.e blades, feathering shaft, some head parts and maybe a spare boom etc, this takes away a mental block knowing you can fix anything
2 its nerve racking but try and be more confident but do what you feel comfortable with (baby steps), i always practiced the very basic moves once up and then tried something more adventurous at least once in one battery life, try turning 45 deg slides left/right that way you can always snap the tail back to you if things get funky
confidence is still my weakness but im overcoming that now and after a year and a half ,,im flying fast figure 8's etc. and almost feel ready for flips

hope this is not too basic but the "wash" thing will help it did for me
good luck
paul

 

[Tony]

don't forget that RCH has a flight school that you can follow along with to get your bird in the air.

Rc-Help - Rc-Help Flight School

 

[murankar]

when using training gear you should be on concrete or something that is smooth. Those balls and stick ends will grab at anything it can when your scooting on the ground. You want the balls to "float" on the ground as your learning the feel of the sticks. As for rate or head hold, if your not flying flying scale just keep it in HH mode you'll enjoy it a lot more.

 

[pvolcko]

Yes, smoother surfaces are better when using training gear. concrete, tarmac, asphalt, even crushed stone lots are good. If you're on grass, best that it is cut short. Preferably a nice sizable putting green.

 

[orbi]

great guys that info is spot on. My heli does go left especially with the training gear!. I found a basketball court that never gets used so I try there lots.... my heli runs left and forward. by the time I try to get correctional its way far left. im always bringing it back and starting again. One day I will hover. Like a fledgling at the mo.... I guess even those birds take a heavy landing now and again.! I got a seasoned heli guy to fly it for me after I set it up and practically rebuilt it on watching Tony s videos. It was perfect except for one detail.! He said when setting up the tail... to always make the tailblades a few degrees in positive when servo is 90. He recons the arm that comes off the push rod should be kinda 90 from the rod across to the bend on that "wishbone lever " fitting. im not certain what you guys call that lever? To do that the tailblades dont meet together when folded as many video s tell you to check , and therefore the damper is not exactly in the middle of the tail slider bar. He says you need to be ahead, the skids are "holding" the torque so when the heli lifts as the tail will want to move.
Thanks 4 the info. will check out that beginners flying site Tony many thanks! was good to hear you guys chew over the rate/hh thing.
Oh one last thing..

you gotta watch a girl called Ballot she s spanish I think but wow she stunt flys with the radio behind her back and flys inverted 4inches above ground..... mega

 

[murankar]

Yeah she flies better then most men in the sport. I was watching her fly over water with the tx behind her back.