General Basic Heli Question

JimD

New Member
Hello,

Can someone please tell me... Is it possible to take a collective pitch heli, and program your radio so that the pitch doesn't change and the throttle stick goes from 0 to 100% (not centered)? In other words, can a collective pitch heli be made to fly and operate like a fixed pitch heli until ready to actually make the change to flying collective?

My son and I are both beginners and he's wanting to buy a collective pitch heli and use it as a fixed pitch until he's ready to swap over to CCPM, but I don't know if it will work. Our simulator works like this when you fly a CCPM heli... that is, in NORM flight mode it acts as a fixed pitch heli and then in STUNT1 (or idle up? or whatever it's called) it becomes a collective pitch.

Thank you very much.
JD
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
It has been done, but i don't think its the right way to go otherwise everyone would be doing it. The blades are different in shape, produce different lift characteristics . I think the CCPM blades would be stalling at low head speed with the angle they would need to be at for hover.
Best thing is get flying with your Fix pitched heli till you are happy hovering around, get as much practice as you can on the sim, then buy a Collective heli.
My first heli was a Trex 450. I got on well with it, but i then bought an MSR fix pitch which really helped my orientation skills and crashing it didn't matter cause you couldn't break it.
Hope this helps.
Lee
 
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stokke

Well-Known Member
I believe it wouldn't be a prob. Normal mode can be programmed in such a manner that the bird behaves pretty much like a FP bird. You can also add a bit of expo and a bunch of D/R to tame it way down.

If you master the FP, you will not have much prob adjusting to a tamed down CP.
 

xokia

Active Member
I would think that the idea would not be having it as a fixed pitch. This would bog the motor down. But rather a curve that levels off. So the lower throttle levels would have less pitch. But once you get the head speed and lift characteristics you want level off the pitch so it doesn't keep increasing. I have never tried this but that is what I would try.

One problem with this is you might end up with to much head speed making the helicopter seem more twitchy.

Funny story I took my 130x to the hobby store to get some help debugging what is wrong with it. The guy took off the main blades to see if the main shaft was bent or the blades we not balanced. Then throttled it up, the rudder gears spun so fast they exploded!!!!! Shot a rudder blade right off the helicopter into his finger drawing blood. Good thing it was a finger and not an eye. So there is such a thing as spining to fast.
 
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Tony

Staff member
I HIGHLY suggest AGAINST doing this to a heli. If you are just getting started, then look at an actual fixed pitch heli like the mSR or 120sr. collective pitch heli's are not that stable, and making them fly with a fixed pitch in the curve will reduce the head speed (what gives the heli it's stability is head speed) and the heli will be VERY unstable.
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
You can programme the CCPM heli to 'feel' like a fix pitch, but still be a Collective. Thats the difference people are trying to tell you i think.
 

JimD

New Member
Sounds like it would not be so wise to try this. We both have the 120SR and mSRX... think we better keep flying these and hammering the sim, then just wade out into the collective pool as slow as we can. Thanks for all the input!
JD
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
No worries mate,
We are here to steer you in the right direction. Don't hesitate to ask anything when you decide on your first CP Heli.
 

pvolcko

Well-Known Member
I did this with my nano CPX for a short while (maybe two flights). I don't recommend it. Main reasons (both assuming a setup with a happy medium pitch setting through the entire throttle range, where head speed is not bogging or overly high in hover):

1) You will learn bad throttle management.

2) Cyclic response while in descent will be worse on a pseudo-FP setup CP heli, than on either a real FP heli or a normally setup CP heli, for most reasonable rates of descent (ie. not accounting for the ridiculous rates of descent possible with negative pitch on a CP heli).

Details on #1: Suffice it to say, a pseudo-FP setup on a CP heli will result in a tendency to climb very easily from hover and overly lag throttle input to fall from hover. What's more, it will be very sluggish to climb from an overly aggressive downward elevation maneuver (due to having to overcome an overly low head speed) and very sluggish to fall from an overly aggressive climb maneuver (due to having to wait for the high head speed to bleed off). This will likely either train you to be too slow in your throttle management (to avoid overshooting) or too aggressive in your throttle management (by purposely feeding impule or overshoot inputs into it and quickly backing off). And if you learn to get it just right on this pseudo-FP setup, you will still find you are at a worse place when it comes time to transition to full CP settings than you would have been using a real FP heli because your throttle inputs will be exaggerated compared to a normal FP heli, which will result in a steeper throttle input learning curve on a CP heli (or at least an abnormal pitch curve that takes this into account).

Details on #2: As head speed lowers and lift efficiency falls, cyclic response will also fall. On a FP heli this is minimized by having higher efficiency blades, which will maintain cyclic response though a broader range of lower head speeds and resulting rates of descent. Alternately, on a CP heli, cyclic control is maintained even when the heli is descending on medium throttle as a result of maintaining a relatively unchanged head speed by lowering blade collective pitch. However, in a pseudo-FP setup on a CP heli, this will not be the case. Collective pitch will be held constant through the throttle range. So the resulting significantly reduced head speed at medium throttle will result in some loss of cyclic control compared to both the FP and CP at a given rate of descent.

If you want to fly FP, get a FP heli. There are many and they are relatively cheap. Transitioning from FP to CP is hard enough, don't put yourself at the added disadvantage of learning pseudo-FP flight on a CP heli.

- - - Updated - - -

Oops, cut out that line. Just realized you said you have a 120SR and mSRX already. :) Stick with them. Go ahead and get a CP heli too, if you're feeling comfortable with your FP skills. The nano CPX is very tough and a lot of fun and great for indoor flying and light breeze outdoor flying. I'd highly recommend getting it with a programmable transmitter if you don't already have one, so you can program in some D/R and expo to tame it down. It is highly reactive compared to the 120SR, which is what I started out on. I used much more D/R and expo than the manual specified to start with: +/-50% as my D/R maximums for A/E/R with 30% expo, to start with. Made it manageable. Up to 75% of maximums now with 20% expo. Don't know if I'll get up to 100%/0% until I get into some beginning 3D stuff.
 
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