450 Align DS425M NOT for blade 450X!

[Wolf714]

having raked my last nerves trying to figure the tail wag/ wobble problem I had w/ my 450X, & sought help/ info about it, I now know, the Align DS425M DOES NOT WORK with 450 size chops!

Had I known that?

you probably wouldn't be reading this..

but for those like me, who are intermediate in the craft @ best, info like this is CRUCIAL

finally-- after exhausting pretty much every possible mechanical & electronic adjustments/ trims/ tweaks I could think of, & got advice on, again-- now I know--

the Align DS425M is made for 250- 300 size helcopters

I sincerely hope that posting this helps out somebody else, because it truly sucks, to work really hard @ a fix, only to see it quite literally, crash in front of you..

Fortunately I learned instead of crashed..

 

[Admiral]

Hi Wolf714, in what way do they not work? I do not own a DS425m but use the older model DS420 on several 450's and one blade 400 and have never had any trouble, I would have bought a DS425 as a replacement if needed.

 

[murankar]

The ds425 replaced the ds420. It should work with a 450. Just so its known the 450 pro dfc plus super combo and the 450 pro dfc comes with that exact servo. So the servo does in fact work with a 450 sized bird.

I would guess that either one: wrong center to ball distance, two: wrong settings in the gyro for the servo or three: bad setup on the tail. One would be shocked at what tiny little flaw can do to a tail. Jessie from rchn had a bolt shear off on a tail component and didn't know. What he did know was the tail was acting odd. Did some maintenance and found the bad bolt.

Is your tail pitch slider an over under style like on the protos mini and gaui x3 or goblin? That setup can cause issues if it not perfect. So many variables that can cause a tail not to lock in. You have to nail down the issue. Keep in mind that the gyro could be bad also.

One other thing i know the 700x has a huge mechanical advantage. I don't l now if this is the same on the 450X. If it is that could be your issue also.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner

 

[Slobberdog]

The ds425 replaced the ds420. It should work with a 450. Just so its known the 450 pro dfc plus super combo and the 450 pro dfc comes with that exact servo. So the servo does in fact work with a 450 sized bird.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner

Marankar not to burst your bubble but the 450 fbl kits came with the DS520 servo not the DS42x size servo, but the plus DFC came with the DS425m because it had the old style pitch control mechanism

While the 425m will work very well on the 450 size heli I would not recommend it, the tail has to be nearly perfect in set up and have very little slop,

The DS425 servo has good speed for the tail but it's not got the strength to cope with the modern tail pitch sliders that have dual forks and lots of moving parts,

As I have said in your other thread if your mounts for your tail servo will allow it put a DS520 or an other mini size servo on it and that giving you set it up well in the gyro will work very well

 

[murankar]

So then why is helidirect showing this listing for the 450 plus dfc:

●T-REX 450 Plus DFC Kit Set X1 set
●3GX MR Flybarless System X1 set
●325D 3G Carbon blades X1set
●RCE-BL35P 35A Brushless ESC X1
●450MX Brushless motor(3400KV) X1
●DS415M (Metal Gear)Digital servoX3
●DS425MDigital servoX1



Radio transmitter and electronic equipment required for assembly:
1.Dial Pitch Gauge or Digital Pitch Gauge
2.Swashplate Leveler
3.3S1P 11.1V 2200 mAh/30C Li-polymer Battery x 1
4.ALIGN T6 of Futaba S-FHSS 2.4G Transmitter x 1

Here is the component listing for the dfc pro from ghost helidirect:


T-REX 450 Plus DFC Kit Set X1 set
3GX MR Flybarless System X1 set
ALIGN T6 6Channel Transmitter X1
325D 3G Carbon blades X1set
RCE-BL35P 35A Brushless ESC X1
450MX Brushless motor(3400KV) X1
DS415M (Metal Gear)Digital servoX3
DS425MDigital servoX1
3S1P 11.1V 2200 mAh/30C Li-polymer Battery X1
Lithlum Battery Balance Charger RCC-3SX X1 set
1.5V AA Zinc-Carbon Battery X4


Radio transmitter and electronic equipment required for assembly:
1.Dial Pitch Gauge or Digital Pitch Gauge
2.Swashplate Leveler

Battery Charger NOT Included


Then i dont know what to say. All i can say is that based off of aligns kit options they work. Personally i would be working out every bit of slop in the tail. I wouldn't just settle. I have had my share of tail issues in the past. Most of it due to my setup.

Once i got my protos and gaui i took my time on the tail. Both kits are over under pitch sliders and both ran Savox SH1257 which is the DS520m equivalent. This Servo is less beefy than the DS425m and its slower even on 7.4 volts its slower.

I guess my issue is logical side. Logically the ds425 will work but you need to nail the setup.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner

 

[Slobberdog]

As I said above,

Quote-but the plus DFC came with the DS425m because it had the old style pitch control mechanism

And here is extracts from the Align manuals

The DFC manual which I have


And the 450 pro v2 3gx

 

[murankar]

Then at a loss here on this. They both look the same to me. When you said pitch mechanisim i thought you were talking pitch slider. There are 2 different types, standard and over under.

 

[Slobberdog]

The plus DFC has a pitch slider that attaches to the pitch control arm with ball on the bottom of the slider,

The pro DFC gas a double attachment with the triple pivots on the pitch control arm, that's why I said more moving parts,

 

[murankar]

Okay so then I was right its an over under setup. Yes those have a higher mechanical advantage which will require you to drop your gains on the tail. You may have to go into P and I tuning to tune out the last bit of wags. I don't think you can adjust P and I gains on the 7200BX.


If your tail not to drift while in a hove while in rate mode then the mechanical is set good, but if you have and kind of drift then you need to solve that before going into advanced tuning. You may still have the wag but its wagging in the same heading. Then to solve the wagging (while in rate mode) you will need to adjust your main gains till the wag is at the slowest or smallest amount of movements. Once you have that then go into P and I and adjust out the wag. Then Go IU 1 and then IU 2 and do the same thing.

If you still cant get the tail locked in then you have to look at every piece of the tail (from the auto rotation gear back), check your 450X manual for ball link distance on the servo horn (the closer to the center the more mechanical advantage you will have. If you still don't find anything then, What is your tail rotor RPM. This can cause issues with your gain settings also. I am not sure what it should be but if your having issues with wag then if there is a way to change the gear ratio to lower the tail rotor speed then you can raise your gain.

I have a feeling that something is wrong in the gyro.