500 Align 4 blade head binding

J

JEXFIRE

Member
finally started putting my head together for my apache project but when using all the supplied hardware, the blade grips are way too tight. there is a 0.4mm washer between the grip and the head and with everything tightened down it does not move freely. my local hobby shop suggested that maybe the grip bearings weren't fully seated. various other forums suggest leaving the washers out, sanding them, or replacing them with thinner ones. anyone out there have any bright ideas? and also I wanna try and use my 1600kv motor but have also read that a 1200-1300kv motor is better and possibly having to change pulleys for the tail and to fly with or without a 3G FBL system,.....and so on. sensory overload! lol i just want to finish it and fly the damn thing lol any input is greatly appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Z8cX7VXec

p.s. if anyone has any of the above listed items for sale or trade let me know. i got some useful rc stuff around here
 
Tony

Tony

Staff member
The first thing that I would do is check the bearings and make sure they are seated. From what it looked like on the video, the shims that go in between the head and grip should be smaller in OD than they appear. They should only contact the inner race of the bearing. I'm not sure what to suggest without seeing it in person.
 
Lee

Lee

Well-Known Member
Try taking the bearings out. Behind there may be some shims that you can remove to get rid of the binding.
@Tony. I think what you and i saw as the washers, is actually just a decorative silver line between the pitch arm and the grip.
 
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Whirlybird

Whirlybird

Member
Another recommendation from Jose M (last post on page) . . .

Align 4 blade main rotor - Page 4 - HeliFreak


"Hello everyone, I also just got one off these heades same problems as listed above
It looks like the problem is on the assembly,the feathering shafts are not out all the way from the head block. When assembling the head leave all the screws loose on the block but snug. When you tigten the blade holder it pulls out the feathering shafts with some wigeling. Now you can tigten all the screws on the block. Everithing mooves very smooth now!

When I first started to assemble mine I mangled a thrust bearing trying to work it out.ground a couple off screw heades It was binding and scored a blade holder, but after duing what I mentioned it looks like it would have cleared with no griding ruquired but very tight fit. Hope this info will help someone." - Jose M
 
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J

JEXFIRE

Member
I was told by my local hobby shop I dont have to use 3G blades or any form of electronic stabilization with this head. What are your thoughts?
 
Lee

Lee

Well-Known Member
Never used one. There is no flybar so stabilisation would be the issue. I've heard its possible to fly it like that. But will it be a fight to fly??? That i don't know.
 
Whirlybird

Whirlybird

Member
In the "OLD" days, multi rotor platforms where very difficult to fly. I'm talking about before gyros . . . early '70's
 
J

JEXFIRE

Member
Ive seen vids of folks flying without 3gx gyros and all i could really figure out is the heli is a bit more twitchy and a little more of a handful to fly. how do you like your Tarot Lee?
 
Lee

Lee

Well-Known Member
Its great for the price. Need to do a bit more tuning. But you know how it is, once you get it sort of tuned, all you want to do is fly. But my BeastX on my 600 is amazing.
 
J

JEXFIRE

Member
i hear ya. always seem to be tuning and testing and replacing something. thats interesting bout the BeastX. i know a guy that has one on a 450 and hates it because on tuning and whatnot. maybe it works better on larger heli's? not sure which way im gunna go just yet but figure its best to spend a little extra on a good unit so i enjoy flying the heli instead of hating it
 
J

JEXFIRE

Member
Finally got 2 pairs of align blades for this head. But I noticed when balancing these blades there's a 3 gram weight difference between the lightest and heaviest blade. Is this too much to balance out?
 
Tony

Tony

Staff member
It depends. If two blades are balanced and the other two are balanced, then you will be fine. But if they are all way off from each other I would get another matched set of blades.
 
J

JEXFIRE

Member
Blade 1 and blade 2 are within half a gram of each other, and so are blade 3 and 4. But when you compare say, blade 1 and 3, there's bout a 3 gram difference. Weight difference between batches I guess. I guess I'm wondering should I try to get all blades to weigh the same? Or can I let this slide?
 
Tony

Tony

Staff member
You should be fine as long as you have blade 1&2 across from each other and blade 3&4 across from each other. It will balance it's self out. I would try to get that half gram difference taken care of and balance them perfectly. I'm not sure of your setup, but you will need to run a 3 axis gyro on this setup on this since you are getting rid of your flybar. Without the gyro it will be very unstable and hard to fly.
 
J

JEXFIRE

Member
Ok sounds good on the blades. 3 grams is a whole lot of tape lol. I'm running all Align electronics including a brand new Align 3gx gyro. I'll be hunting down your set up vid for this gyro to help me get it going. I'm also waiting on parts to build a TT raised tail instead of the belt drive tail the fuselage came with. Was readig that the plastic pulleys at the bend in the tail overheat and melt in record time. That should be fairly straight forward.
 
Tony

Tony

Staff member
Good deal on the electronics. As for the setup of the 3GX, there is far better information on here than there is on my video. My video is pretty much just an overview of the setup whereas on here it gets pretty indepth.
 
zenmetsu

zenmetsu

Member
I find myself using that foil tape for balancing. It is pretty heavy stuff and thus will require very little tape to make up the weight difference.

And WTH is up with Align blades? I use the 205D carbons and they are advertised with a per-set weight of 14g. I have yet to find a blade under 8.0grams. Based upon this, Align must absolutely suck when it comes to math.

Worse yet, I have never bought a pair of blades that were even remotely close to being balanced. I am also a hobby-chemist, so I have a good balance that measures in hundredths of a gram, with +/- 0.01g accuracy up to 150g and +/- 0.03g accuracy from 150-400g. The first pack had an 8.33g blade and an 8.48g blade (almost 2% heavier). The set that I current have mounted was an 8.24g blade paired with an 8.49g blade (3% heavier). This tells me that Align sucks when it comes to quality control, probably because they cannot math properly.

Regarding 4-blade systems, Tony is right on stating that opposing blades should be balanced, but the two pairs can be different. In fact, it is probably ideal since you can lose a blade and keep the good member from the pair. When it comes time to replace, you will have a variety of weights to match to, and you are more likely to find a close match than trying to buy a pack and matching to a single weight for all 4 blades.

- - - Updated - - -

Additionally, you would suspect that the variations would be minimized with increasing size, but even this is not the case. I walked into the local hobby shop while a patron was inside balancing his 425D blades. I cannot remember the weights of the blades, but I remember that the heavier one was heavier by just over 4%. Looking at the advertised weight for these blades, the difference would have been about 3grams. I would thus conclude that Jexfire's situation is not an isolated case.
 
J

JEXFIRE

Member
Oh if you think that's bad, i bought 2 pairs of hobbyking blades that were 10 or 12 grams off when you compared pair one with pair 2. I haven't heard of foil tape, is that the tape that comes with the blades? And I'll be looking for a good tutorial on here for that 3gx because I assume the disc that came with it will be quite technical and difficult to understand. Considering I haven't ever set one up before.
 
zenmetsu

zenmetsu

Member
No, the metal foil tape that I am talking about is the stuff used for AC repair. You can find it at a local hardware store or even Walmart. It is basically aluminum foil with an adhesive on one side. Basically my process is this.

I find the difference in mass between the lightest blade and the heaviest blade and trim the metal tape to match this amount.
I place the foil side down on the blade so that it doesn't stick, and move it back and forth while comparing center of gravity on the two blades.
Once I find the correct spot for the tape, I clean that spot with isopropyl alcohol and then apply the tape.

The stuff is really sticky and I've never had it peel off in use. The downside is that it isn't clear so it will be quite visible. If you care about looks, it might not be the best choice. :)

BTW, I just noticed that you are also here in Phoenix.
 
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