D.O.G.
Goblin 380 Supporter
Scale Agusta A109
- Thread starter Tony
- Start date
I bought it unless you have two of them 
D.O.G.
Goblin 380 Supporter
Welcome to getting old
D.O.G.
Goblin 380 Supporter
That's the way to go. Save your money for another rainy day.
Tony
Staff member
I'm about to give up. I received the balls and ends, and thankfully the threads are the same on the balls, but the body of the balls is shorter than what was on it. This does change geometry a little bit, but not something that is too bad. What is HORRIBLE is the links that go from the swash to the blade grips are LARGER than every other linkage, and guess what.... The ends do not fit. So I tried the ends that were on these larger rods, and the balls are too small. No idea where to go from here.
The only thing that might save my sanity is IF Murphy's original head is the same and I can use parts off of it. But I cannot remember if it was flybarless or if it was flybar. And... I need to find it. Never have a fought a kit like this, not even Murphy!!!! Some manufacturers.... You just come to expect trash. This company... I didn't see this coming.
The only thing that might save my sanity is IF Murphy's original head is the same and I can use parts off of it. But I cannot remember if it was flybarless or if it was flybar. And... I need to find it. Never have a fought a kit like this, not even Murphy!!!! Some manufacturers.... You just come to expect trash. This company... I didn't see this coming.
fran11784
Goblin 380 Supporter
So, let me understand this, originally you were saying that the plastic ball links are too tight on the balls? I have one of these heads new in the package. I just took it out and snaped the links in the ball of the grip. Yeah, they are pretty tight. As I mentioned I have used two of these kits and never had these issues. I guess those links are 3mm. Pretty much 700 size. I can look though my stuff for some links. I must have them here somewhere.
Tony
Staff member
Laying in bed, it did hit me, I had measured 4.7mm and 5mm balls on the helicopter, and I think you are right, I think for some reason, they are using a 700/800 size linkage for the blade grips. I have no idea why.
I have another head that came with Murphy that I'm going to to out and get here soon. I'm hoping I can just strip that head and use the parts. And if that doesn't work, they I will just use the DFC head from Murphy...
I have another head that came with Murphy that I'm going to to out and get here soon. I'm hoping I can just strip that head and use the parts. And if that doesn't work, they I will just use the DFC head from Murphy...
Tony
Staff member
Welp, Murphy started out life as a flybar helicopter. So that idea is a no go.
fran11784 This is going on a scale helicopter, so instead of trying to find a DFC head or something like that, why not just go with a scale 4 blade head? Since you are the scale guru around here, what head would you suggest? And since we are on the topic, what blades?
fran11784 This is going on a scale helicopter, so instead of trying to find a DFC head or something like that, why not just go with a scale 4 blade head? Since you are the scale guru around here, what head would you suggest? And since we are on the topic, what blades?
fran11784
Goblin 380 Supporter
Well, as far as multiblade heads, there's Roban and Vario. Neither is cheap. Roban is less expensive than Vario. Then there's Ebay. Some decent priced stuff there that looks ok in the pictures. As far as blades go, I mostly use Spin Blades, but they come from Germany as does Vario. (the scale stuff anyway) Roban has 600 size 4 blade sets if you could find them. I always thought why not just use two sets of 600 blades. If their balanced what's the difference. But there has to be a way to make this work. So, the balls on the grips should be around 494+-. And the balls on the swash should be around 471+-. You say the other stuff you bought should work for servos to swash? Then maybe I can send you 700 ball links and two balls for the swash to the grips. I'm thinking the balls on the grips are right and you would need two more for the swash. If that makes any sense.
Tony
Staff member
Yea, it makes sense. I'm going to do something though, I was to take all balls off the helicopter and measure them. Try to wrap my head around why they did what they did. If it's just 700 size linkages I need, I can buy those as long as I can find them. But the height of the balls... that is the weird part. Align's balls are really short, and the chinese balls have two different heights. I will take a picture soon to explain.
Tony
Staff member
Okay, here we go.
The left 4 all measure 4.68-4.7mm. Standard 600 size, but are longer than normal, likely for increased movement without binding.
From the left, the first single is the large ball measuring at 4.96-4.97mm depending on the grab (I need a new set of calipers with a hardened surface).
The one second from the right is the short one off of the bellcrank where the servo connects to
And the far right one is the new Align ball. Just looking at the threads and finish, the align definitely wins that battle lol. But that height difference though...
The left 4 all measure 4.68-4.7mm. Standard 600 size, but are longer than normal, likely for increased movement without binding.
From the left, the first single is the large ball measuring at 4.96-4.97mm depending on the grab (I need a new set of calipers with a hardened surface).
The one second from the right is the short one off of the bellcrank where the servo connects to
And the far right one is the new Align ball. Just looking at the threads and finish, the align definitely wins that battle lol. But that height difference though...
Tony
Staff member
Okay, update time.
The original plastic swash drivers were oversized. The new Align swash drivers work perfectly, even though I did need to use the longer balls on the left in the image above. I had to use those because if you look at the narrowest part, it is thinner, which results in more swash movement without binding. And with the Align ball on the right, the links would actually pop off. But they are almost perfect now.
I have been looking and I cannot find this linkage kit anywhere. I honestly would rather replace it for the original kit, but I don't think that is going to happen.
I am worried about the 3 swash linkages now though....
The original plastic swash drivers were oversized. The new Align swash drivers work perfectly, even though I did need to use the longer balls on the left in the image above. I had to use those because if you look at the narrowest part, it is thinner, which results in more swash movement without binding. And with the Align ball on the right, the links would actually pop off. But they are almost perfect now.
I have been looking and I cannot find this linkage kit anywhere. I honestly would rather replace it for the original kit, but I don't think that is going to happen.
I am worried about the 3 swash linkages now though....
fran11784
Goblin 380 Supporter
Heres a picture of the Align 700 link and the link from the Phoenixtech head I have. I think if you use 700 balls in two locations on the swash that will work. Just the links are a bit shorter. Shorter balls on the inner ring of the swash should help with the FBL setup anyway. What linkage kit are you talking about there?
Attachments
Tony
Staff member
So the longer balls are needed for movement to keep from binding. I like the idea of shorter balls on the swash and longer balls on the grips to reduce movement (twitchiness) but at the risk of popping off a link, not an option.
So if I order a pack of 700 ends and 700 balls, that should solve this issue.
I also just learned the servo horn needs to be on the bottom and not the top so I need to flip the servos over. I thought the two parallel links would be level, or perpendicular to the main shaft, but nope, they are made to be at an angle. #learning!
So if I order a pack of 700 ends and 700 balls, that should solve this issue.
I also just learned the servo horn needs to be on the bottom and not the top so I need to flip the servos over. I thought the two parallel links would be level, or perpendicular to the main shaft, but nope, they are made to be at an angle. #learning!
Tony
Staff member
Alright, here is what we are going to try. With the new Align link ends and balls, I have freed up every other part of the system, so I think I'm going to try the swash to grip linkages that I have and see if it's okay. The swash servos should be more than enough to over power any resistance, and with as rough as these balls are, they will wear in. Hopefully.
