700 700n shaky on spool up

[brent]

Hi everyone, been tuning my first 700n lately and had my first fly around yesterday, It took me 3 or 4 circuits before the nerves settled enough to be able to fly properly. Now I've got it flying really well, still needs a few tweeks on the mixture and maybe increase the head speed of idle up 2 a bit more other than that I'm happy as with it.
Now the thing I want to know is, is it normal for a 700 to shake on spool up around the middle of the spool? it doesn't do it when I first start spinning the blades until they are what I would say is at half speed then it settles down a little after that once I'm nearly up to my head speed ? Both the main blades and tail blades and balanced they weigh the same and sit perfectly level on the see saw, Iv'e tried different tension on the blade grips from tight to almost floppy.
when I started the main blades were very tight in the grips so I sanded them down with a very fine grit on a belt sander until they were just snug in the grips with no play.
another thing I don't like about spooling this beast up is the vibrations tip the swash plate over so I have to watch it very carefully so it doesn't tip over but is rock solid once off the ground, I'm wondering if the shake could have something to do with this as well or is it just nitros?
Another thing I'd like opinions on is how to tune the mixture, I watched a video on youtube to learn, they had the throttle curve at 60% hovering with 5 degrees of pitch and 100% at full with 10-12 degrees of pitch, then doing full throttle climbs leaned out the high needle till it had a nice powerful climb but still not screaming and still plenty of smoke then adjusted the mid needle until it had a steady transition from climb back to hover eg not bogging down (mid to rich) or screaming (mid to lean) all of this is done in normal mode with the governor off.
makes it hard to get back down without the head speed dropping real low because of the 5 degrees pitch at half stick is there a better way? also what sort of temps are you guys running I heard around 180-190f I'm sitting at more like 130-150 which makes me think I could lean it out a bit more currently getting a 8 minute flight just doing figure 8s etc
sorry about the long post guys but wanted to try cover all my questions, looking forward to replys
Cheers
Brent.

(700n pro, ms carbon fiber main blades, align c f tail blade, 3gx, dx9)

 

[Tony]

The 3GX is the cause for the tip. Trust me on this, put an AR7200BX on that bird.

The vibrations during spool-up are normal. It's trying to straighten the blades out and there will always be a resonance vibration on all helicopters.

 

[brent]

Hi Tony, Wow the man himself thanks for the reply
Ahh yes I've have heard very good things about the beast x and now with a build in rx sweeeeet.
will have to let the heli savings account build up a little more first.

- - - Updated - - -

Seems there is no governor in the firmware yet but a firmware upgrade is on its way,
I'm guessing it would be as safe as using the 3gx with two dsmx sats? or can it take an external sat or two?

 

[Tony]

The Man? Someone lied to you lmao.

Yes, the AR7200BX is an amazing gyro and yes, it has an AR7200 Spektrum built into it. I had this gyro on my 600 Nitro, and the thing was just about hands off stable with factory settings. I didn't move a thing.

The new firmware DOES have a governor in it. Right after I received the Ikon for the 600N is when it came out. It will plug into your Aux channel. 2 I think. 1 is your pitch servo. I'm not 100% on this setup as I have not done it yet. YET being the key word here. lol. I'm still trying to get the time and courage to get this Ikon setup then I will play with the BX some more.

The 3GX is just way too unstable on the ground to risk it with anything over a 450 size helicopter. I hate it being on my 450, but I'm trying to tame the 3GX beast using that as my testing platform. It's not going so well lmao.

You can run a separate Rx with the BX. There is a port right in the center of the plugs for it. On a 700, you MUST use a satellite Rx. The two antennas that are on the gyro also need to be mounted correctly. The short one will point straight out from the gyro, but the long one needs to be curled around to face perpendicular to the short one. This will give you the best diversity. The satellite will then be mounted with the antennas pointing up and down giving you almost no chance of losing signal, or "Brown Out" as they call it.

Hope this helps.

 

[brent]

Ha ha I was meaning the man who made the site but I'm sure your flying is better than mine too.
Now when you say I must use a satellite rx for a 700 is there a port to plug a satellite into on the AR7200BX or do I have to run a an external rx?
And If the governor signal plugs into aux 2 does that leave any aux channels for a switchglo driver etc?

 

[Tony]

Yes, as stated above, there is a port right in the center of the other ports where you can connect a satellite Rx. In the picture below, the blank spot right in the center of all of hte pins is where you will connect the satellite. On the top, you can see this marked as "Rx L".

And the governor will go into Aux3 port. I know, 7 channel, but it has an Aux3 lol. But this is how it works. Below is a link to the PDF on the update.

http://www.spektrumrc.com/ProdInfo/Files/SPMAR7200BX-Governor_Firmware_Update.pdf

 

[brent]

Ohhh very nice thanks for all you help, after doing some reading may I ask why you suggested the ar7200bx over an ikon? I like the look of the self level feature and the andriod app for the ikon but cant find anywhere to buy it from?

 

[Tony]

I suggested the BX because I have flown the BX. I have the Ikon as well, but have never flown it. Dont' get me wrong, the Ikon is GREAT. But do NOT rely on that SL feature until after you are used to the way the helicopter is flying. Too many people crashing their helicopter with this feature. One member, hit Sl and it sent his helicopter into his house. Not a good thing if it's not setup perfectly. The BX, just works as I'm sure the Ikon does too if you do not rely on SL. Either is a great choice.

 

[brent]

I see, I'm just starting to learn 3d, I can do flips and rolls in all directions and combo a few of them, am pretty comfortable with upright fast backwards figure 8 and inverted backwards figure 8s but I'm trying to push my limits everyday and thought sl would be great as a bail out kind of thing doesn't take much to lose orientation (on the left hand inverted backwards circuit with my 450) and crash

 

[Tony]

Cool deal. I just don't want to see a 700 plowed into the ground lol. Sounds like you have a handle on it though. Ikon or BX, you can't go wrong. They are both fantastic.

 

[xokia]

I know people really like the Ikon but I think I liked the BX better. I liked the simplicity of the BX and the fact you could dial in cyclic in all directions to perfectly match. I think Bank select on the Ikon is a little over rated IMO. Beastx having GOV now is pretty cool. On my 700 I could hands off hover with the BX. I think its the same one Tony was using on his 600. It's a rock solid FBL controller.

Tony I think you will like the Ikon it flies very similar to the BX I might even give it a slight nudge above the BX. And don't get me started on SL of the Ikon I warned people long ago not to trust the Ikon for bail out. As a regular FBL controller it does great and even handles vibes very well. I wont mess with the 3GX anymore. I have heard with the latest firmware update that its a pretty good controller. But there are so many better options out right now that the 3GX ends up on the bottom of the list.

 

[Tony]

I completely agree X. And yes, the simplicity of the BX is fantastic. No computer, everything is done on the gyro, and if you cna get a blue light, you are golden. I never was able to get a blue light on the 600, but even with a purple light, it was rock solid. One of these days, I will have the Ikon in the air. Just have too many other projects for BA right now. Just pulled the wifes engine apart in her Camaro and stopped counting cracks in teh block after 6. Needless to say, it's junk. Time to move on to my '71 Chevy Truck....

 

[brent]

Went with the ikon in the finish, well this one is a tracx but you know same thing. has anyone set one up with a dx9 before? in the swash type I set it to normal (no option for one servo) but when I adjust the endpoints for ele it doesnt change on the software panel all other channels are ajustable.

 

[coolgabsi]

Went with the ikon in the finish, well this one is a tracx but you know same thing. has anyone set one up with a dx9 before? in the swash type I set it to normal (no option for one servo) but when I adjust the endpoints for ele it doesnt change on the software panel all other channels are ajustable.

Do the stick movements move the elevator slider ?

Go to advanced , common setup, in that rx and check to make sure the channel for elevator is the right one.

Normal is the same as one servo. They don't call it one servo anymore cause there aren't many mechanical mixing birds left out there anymore

 

[brent]

Hey thanks for the reply, yes the tx stick movements move the slider on the display of the wizard for ele and in advanced ele is assigned to channel 3 and the slider also moves with stick movements yet I still cant adjust end point.
this laptop runs vista which wont run the 3gx software currectly or the copterx software so I'll try download the tracx software to my xp pc which runs the others fine. I'm hoping its not a faulty fbl unit

 

[brent]

turns out its a bug in the spektrum firmware, I could only adjust the elevator end points with the direction set to normal, then I reversed the channel to get it to move the slider the correct way on the tracx software.

 

[xokia]

turns out its a bug in the spektrum firmware, I could only adjust the elevator end points with the direction set to normal, then I reversed the channel to get it to move the slider the correct way on the tracx software.

Have you tried deleting the model from the remote then installing a new one?

On my DX8 I have had some screwy function. I double checked and triple checked everything. Deleting the model and starting a new one fixed my issue.

 

[brent]

Flew the 700n with the Tracx (Ikon) today running the gov so have the fight mode mixed with the idle up switch as you have to set throttle curves at flat lines eg 30% speed 1 60% speed 2 etc. Took off in normal mode/beginner setting then flicked to IU1 1800rpm/ sport mode flew around a bit then went to IU2 1950 rpm /sport mode not only was it rock solid on the ground (swash plate dead flat) its unbelievable in the air too did have to turn the tail gains down about 5% but wow these things are great. After the first couple of flights I realized I didn't even have any expo in there.
Never be putting the 3gx back on ever!!! Ps also got rid of the shake on spool up too, after reading around a bit I pulled out and checked the main shaft bearings they were fine also removed the dampners also fine then tried the last thing I read about and did the blade grips up so tight I can barely move the blades now I wack them around till they are as straight as I can get them by eye and it spools up beautifully very happy with this model now.

 

[coolgabsi]

Where is the video????


Good job on the flight. 3GX to ikon or brain is a night and day difference . Glad to hear you enjoyed your flight

 

[brent]

Are Yes the video, this brings up the question Iv'e been asking myself lately .
Whats a good camera to buy to film flying with? do I go with a handy cam type one or just a good digital camera, are digital zooms good enough or do they need to be mechanical? how many mps or fps etc?