General 5 blade 450 pro has a bit of a lean going on

[kennyboypro]

Hi guys.
I built a 5 blade 450 pro the other day, when i get it into a hover, the heli seems to have a bit of lean, is that normal for a 5 blade setup ?.
Also, what should the pitch and throttle curves be set at for 5 blade setup, im using the msh brain gyro on it, which i was running on my 2 blade heli with no issues, but on my 5 blade heli i have tail wag, is this down to the head speed being to high ?.

 

[Tony]

Tail wag will be the result of the gain too high on the tail. Or binding. But I would lower the head speed a bit from what is suggested for 2 blades.

As for the lean, as mentioned in the other thread, all helicopters have a lean to them. Clockwise rotating headed heli's will lean to the right to counter the force given off by the tail rotor. If you can, post a pic of the lean and we can help a little more. Video would be even better.

 

[kennyboypro]

not sure if this is the right way to do it, but heres a short video link to my first hover with it, it still needs a bit of setting up, but its the first time i have tried a 5 blade head setup.

first hover with my 5 blade heli - YouTube

 

[Tony]

Wow, that is a LOT of lean. But, that is completely normal for a bird that size. Here is what's happening. When you are spinning 5 blades, you are putting almost 2.5x the force on the tail to keep it pointing where you want it to. There is just more drag with that head. Because of that, the tail is having to force out more air to counter the forces of the head. This is why they say if you are going to run a 4 or 5 blade head, then you need to move up to a 4 blade tail, it just helps even things out.

However, the lean is still going to be there. I couldn't see the gyro on that thing, but if you are flying that thing with a standard tail gyro, then great job. But I'm hoping that you are flying with a 3 axis gyro.

 

[kennyboypro]

im using the msh brain 3 axis gyro on it, i bought a beastx for it, but was struggling with that when trying to setup, i couldnt get any where near enough pitch, the servo horns hardly moved, so gave up after a couple of hours, removed the beastx, removed the msh brain from one of my other helis put it on my 5 blader, no issues with setup
strange thing is tho, i put the beastx on my other heli, and setup was a breeze, 10 min and it was done.
Did you notice how the heli sort of veered off to the left before it came of the ground, surley that aint right, thinking maybe i should remove the head and re check the swash, what do you think ?

 

[Tony]

That is completely normal with the heli moving to the left. Again, the tail is forcing air out to the right pushing the tail to the left to counter the drag of the main rotor. I tried to find a video of my helicopters (just 2 blade heads) on take off moving to the left, but it seems I compensate for it automatically now. But trust me, it's normal. One thing that you "might" be able to do is put a set of 500 skids and tail blades on the helicopter. That might help just a bit with that massive head.

 

[kennyboypro]

forgot to mention, its a 6s setup with a 10t pinion slant gear, hyperion atlas 45a sbec brushless esc, kst 215 cyclic servos, the tail servo is a cheap kds n590, may change that for the align ds520 tho

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yes, i also compensate that with my 2 blade helis, but as you can see in the vid, it moves to the left a lot, but could have been me, i mean i was taking my time getting it airborn because i didnt know what it was going to do, to be honest, i was pooping my pants lol.
not sure the 500 tail blades would fit the 450 blade grips, but did buy a set of 68mm 450 tail blades, but they seem to be very tight fitting in the blade grips, so havent used them

 

[Tony]

6s is good for something with this mass. And yeah, I would change that tail servo and put something better on it. the DS525 is supposed to be pretty good. I'm running the DS655 on my nitro, and the one time I had that nightmare 3.0 in the air, it was rock solid!!!

 

[Tony]

If they are plastic tail blades, you can lightly sand the root a bit to make them fit. You may also have to open up the grips, but be very gentle. That metal will crack very easily. But, I would definitely put bigger tail blades on that thing. Won't hurt, that's for sure.

 

[kennyboypro]

my md500e fuselage, i cant wait to get my heli in there, but want to make sure the heli is 100% before i do, im not even sure the head phasing is correct, i watched a youtube vid to see how it was done and followed that, but its got to be pretty much there or it wouldnt fly i would think.
now i need to know what the correct pitch and throttle curves i need for it, any idea ?

 

[Tony]

That is a great looking bird right there. As for the phasing, I have no idea on that. And I'm not sure on pitch curves. I would set it up to what feels good to you. Start out with about 10º of positive pitch as well as negative. I say negative because if you have to auto this thing down, you will need negative pitch. For throttle curves, start out with something like 0 40 65 65 65 for normal mode, and maybe a flat 85% across the board in idle up. This should give it that sound that you are looking for. No surging when going up and down on the collective.

 

[kennyboypro]

Another thing i wanted to do was reverse the rotor head direction, and put the tail rotor on the opposite side, i know you just need to reveres the motor, but putting the tail rotor on the other side would be a real pain to do, people have done it tho, how i dont know because the linkage rod would have to be places above the tail boom.

 

[Tony]

Not sure on the tail, but you would have to find a one way bearing for your main gear that would allow CCW rotation. Right now, if you reverse your motor, it would just free spin.

 

[kennyboypro]

sounds good to me tony, i will play with it tomorrow when we get better weather.
i want to test hover the 450 i setup with the beastx tomorrow, again, im going to be pooping my pants, as i have never setup a beastx before, i always relied on a friend of mine to do them.
i setup my vbar by myself, also 2 of my msh brain gyros, and now a beastx, i like the beastx, i have a scale airwolf running on a beastx, its sooooooo stable.
so im only just getting into setting these things up, im a slow learner, but im getting there.

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all you do is remove the one way bearing, turn it upside down and put it back in, job done my friend

 

[Tony]

Get it on video, we want to see hehe. As for setting up the Bx, I'm not sure as I just purchased my first one and it's on it's way for my 600N. But from what I hear, they are pretty simple and sounds like you got it going.

 

[Tony]

all you do is remove the one way bearing, turn it upside down and put it back in, job done my friend

That is if you can press it out without damaging it lol. I'm sure with the right size press, it's cake. Good luck with it.

 

[kennyboypro]

yeah, i have replace one before, not to bad to do, i will let you know how i get on with my 5 blade heli tomorrow tony
my fleet, my wife wont let me have anymore lol

 

[Tony]

Tell the wife you need diversity. Like, a 500, and 600, and 700, and 800 hahahaha. Have a good night.

 

[Lee]

Sweet set of helis mate. My first choice on a scale build would be the MD500 as well with the 5 blade head. That yellow and blue one is a Devil 480 right?

 

[kennyboypro]

Hello lee.
Yes, bang on with that, its the alzrc 480, 6s setup

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its just a stretched 450 pro really tho, not much bigger than the 450 pro, longer tail boom, bigger main blades.
it cost me a small fortune to build it and get it in the air, and to be honest, i wish i had bought a trex 500 pro instead, but i suppose that can come later.

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do you know anything about multi blade setups ?

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I have tried that one tony, she aint having none of it lol.
catch you later mate, and thanks for your advice, i will play with it tomorrow and let you know how i got on

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I have tried that one tony, she aint having none of it lol.
catch you later mate, and thanks for your advice, i will play with it tomorrow and let you know how i got on