Hey Guys ... Ive never flown. I have used my patience and wits to rebuild a Pro. By asking and watching vids Ive managed a reasonable effort. When I spool up with trainers on the heli jumps to the left as I try to get into hover. I feel if she lifts she will roll over left. Ive checked the setups time after time and rechecked the Tx6i settings but Im always on the right to top right of cyclic to compensate the left drifting. Why if the settings are right can I not just go STRAIGHT UP!! if I use throttle only why cant the heli just go up vertically surely the gyro is there to keep it steady and locked. I can understand a little wind etc. But a heli thats running away to the left?. Ive tried this on simulator too the heli bombs off like a bullet to the left. Grrr why left? Im missing somethin..... maybe a co pilot lol Im seriously thinking of getting one. at least it may help with costly crashes till I get more confident.
450 450 PRO. newbie wants helicommand. Y/N ?
- Thread starter orbi
- Start date
Derek
Well-Known Member
Helicopters will naturally drift the to left upon lift off. This was a scary lesson for me, as well. The main rotor head is spinning clockwise and the torque that is created from the head will want to push the tail to the left. The gyro will then recognize that and engage the pitch of the tail rotor to keep the heli in line, but for the first second or two, the heli will drift to the left. Do you have training gear on this 450?
Something does tell me that it's quite possible that there is something wrong with your settings or trims because you said that the same happens on the sim. I've noticed that on the sim, that initial "left-drift" never happens on the sim but will almost always happen with my 500. You may need to recheck your settings in your Tx and also recheck that your servo arms are at 90 degrees and level with each other.
Something does tell me that it's quite possible that there is something wrong with your settings or trims because you said that the same happens on the sim. I've noticed that on the sim, that initial "left-drift" never happens on the sim but will almost always happen with my 500. You may need to recheck your settings in your Tx and also recheck that your servo arms are at 90 degrees and level with each other.
Thanks Derek.....Yeh im obviously missing something.... I got the servos spot on and checked the links as per the specs 32.5mm centres which is what I make it even before I knew that spec detail. My swash is something to see, I only got zero on aileron about 3 on pitch and around 9 clicks for subtrims. I recon if I just get it up above the ground , i mean like 80feet I might have a chance of keeping it from crashing. Im gonna wait for a few weeks more as Ive joined a nearby club, but even so im still gonna have a bash at installing a helicommand of some sort.
Yeah I do have training gear on and ive made certain that the heli is balanced from front and side ,within reason.
A question... if I use a higher power battery like 40C /2200 instead of a regular 25C /2200 will this affect the throttle at the same point on the stick?. The heli I think should lift at a point lower on the stick as the revs are increased even tho the pitch will not have reached normal degree of lift ....I mean does the higher revs mean I can get lift at a lower pitch ? Is my thinking correct here I wonder.
Yeah I do have training gear on and ive made certain that the heli is balanced from front and side ,within reason.
A question... if I use a higher power battery like 40C /2200 instead of a regular 25C /2200 will this affect the throttle at the same point on the stick?. The heli I think should lift at a point lower on the stick as the revs are increased even tho the pitch will not have reached normal degree of lift ....I mean does the higher revs mean I can get lift at a lower pitch ? Is my thinking correct here I wonder.
Tony
Staff member
What Derek posted it correct. The tail is blowing air out to the right to counter the torque of the main blades thus making the heli move to the left. This is completely normal for all helicopters with a tail rotor.
One thing that makes the feeling worse is the training gear. Because the tipping point is way out to the side, it has to lift up and it will still be tipping but still have those left side balls on the ground. All heli's will fly with some right angle to the heli. You can see this quite well when I did the maiden of the HK600GT. In my training videos, you can also see that the heli wants to slide to the left on take off. Again, this is normal. Give yourself plenty of room and try to add right cyclic and more collective to get it off the ground. Once in a hover, get at least 3' in the air to get out of the ground effect which makes a heli very hard to control.
More head speed will make the heli feel more stable, but is more intimidating. In my videos, I suggest a linear throttle curve, but here lately I have suggested (if you have a good ESC) a throttle curve of 0 60 75 75 75. This will give you a straight T curve when you are about ready to lift into the ground.
You should have 0º pitch at mid stick with throttle hold engaged. Then you should have 11º of pitch, both positive and negative. If you have more positive than negative, then you need to lower your swash links and vice versa.
As for the batteries, watch my video "Matching Motor Battery ESC". Remember, the battery does not push power, the motor pulls it. The C rating is there for higher draw motors. If your pack is getting hot, then you need a higher C rating. If you see any increase in motor speed, then your last battery was too small.
Hope this helps.
One thing that makes the feeling worse is the training gear. Because the tipping point is way out to the side, it has to lift up and it will still be tipping but still have those left side balls on the ground. All heli's will fly with some right angle to the heli. You can see this quite well when I did the maiden of the HK600GT. In my training videos, you can also see that the heli wants to slide to the left on take off. Again, this is normal. Give yourself plenty of room and try to add right cyclic and more collective to get it off the ground. Once in a hover, get at least 3' in the air to get out of the ground effect which makes a heli very hard to control.
More head speed will make the heli feel more stable, but is more intimidating. In my videos, I suggest a linear throttle curve, but here lately I have suggested (if you have a good ESC) a throttle curve of 0 60 75 75 75. This will give you a straight T curve when you are about ready to lift into the ground.
You should have 0º pitch at mid stick with throttle hold engaged. Then you should have 11º of pitch, both positive and negative. If you have more positive than negative, then you need to lower your swash links and vice versa.
As for the batteries, watch my video "Matching Motor Battery ESC". Remember, the battery does not push power, the motor pulls it. The C rating is there for higher draw motors. If your pack is getting hot, then you need a higher C rating. If you see any increase in motor speed, then your last battery was too small.
Hope this helps.
Westy
LEGEND
Re The Heli Command..... Definately someting to help you get stable when the heli goes nuts on ya.... and you are right you will save lots of money on crashes. The more expensive you go, the more you can take it up your fleet as you go to bigger helis.... and start learning 3d flying. the good ones have bail out options..... you will never look back. consider it this way. if you spend the extra $250 on a Heli command HC3-sx ($499 RRP).... you will save that bailing out of your first crash in repairs. - This is especially the bigger helis.
[video=vimeo;52555248]http://vimeo.com/52555248[/video]
[video=vimeo;52555248]http://vimeo.com/52555248[/video]
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Thanks wow it sure gets technical.......... interesting about the battery nor pushing the power and that the motor pulls it senario !. so I guess I could have the most powerful battery evermade and It wouldnt make a jot of difference to the performance. click ! the light has just come on.... Like in a car its not the fuel that enhances performance its the engine... the motor. That makes sense.
see ya later guys gotta fly.
see ya later guys gotta fly.
Hi got my heli command Flymentor KDS mounted it all up nice and neat .... now come to set up the electronics and ...... no cd /link the driver installed but it wont initiate ive tried all day and found many guys have had the same problem. Im on XP but cant get the darn thing to set via the USB / CD link. any ideas?
Graham Lawrie
Well-Known Member
Hi Orbi, I have just read this thread and hope it is all sorted now?
I notice you have mentioned "3 and 9 clicks" i take it that this is on your TX? I have a 450, and like everyone says they do go left until off the ground and hovering till you move right. I am wondering if you have set up the gyro correctly. Is it 3gx? Tony has a good video on 3gx how to if it is
ive put on a KDS flymentor.... when I move the rudder stick left nothing happens with the set on OR off. the tail will move when the stick is pushed right of centre but not left. Ive checked the servo 8 times for centre 90 and checked the mid position of the tail itself and thats fine with centre on stick and the 90 on servo. It all lines up there. but still no movement on tail with left stick? concerned !
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hi mate... just fitted the KDS not flown yet i took ages to load the software, I had a prob with the com port. anyways I cant seem to get left movement with rudder on the stick. stick moves tail dont! any ideas
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hi mate... just fitted the KDS not flown yet i took ages to load the software, I had a prob with the com port. anyways I cant seem to get left movement with rudder on the stick. stick moves tail dont! any ideas
Graham Lawrie
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you have not set the tail limits correctly. In most gyros i have used(2 as i am new to this) there is always a section on tail limit setting. This involves letting the gyro know the end limits of travel of the tail in both directions left and right, which you need to set. I am not familiar with the KDS system, but i thought about getting one myself at one point.
Lee has a good set of pictures to follow to see if the tail is working correctly. This is often a fault that i have come accross and needs to be adjusted in correction direction.
Basically if you move the tail to the right the blades should move left and vise versa.
I would check Lees thread it is on his page at the bottom and also go through the tail set up. It took me many attempts to get this right first time round
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nCDalzpETA
Lee has a good set of pictures to follow to see if the tail is working correctly. This is often a fault that i have come accross and needs to be adjusted in correction direction.
Basically if you move the tail to the right the blades should move left and vise versa.
I would check Lees thread it is on his page at the bottom and also go through the tail set up. It took me many attempts to get this right first time round
- - - Updated - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nCDalzpETA
Westy
LEGEND
Are you using the Flymentor Gyro for the rudder? or are you using another gyro to control rudder only? - Which is what I did
Does the rudder move correctly if you plug the rudder servo directly into your channel 4 on your normal receiver?
oh and Heli Command and the KDS Flymenor are 2 totally different animals.... the KDS is like the WAL Mart version ... and is quite hard to set it up.
I am setting one up for a client .... and once my parts come.... all will be up in the air again (Next Couple of days)
Does the rudder move correctly if you plug the rudder servo directly into your channel 4 on your normal receiver?
oh and Heli Command and the KDS Flymenor are 2 totally different animals.... the KDS is like the WAL Mart version ... and is quite hard to set it up.
I am setting one up for a client .... and once my parts come.... all will be up in the air again (Next Couple of days)
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