700 700e Swash Plate Leveling

[Peter Vice]

Good morning Tony,
After hovering and fighting my heli just to do steady left and right flying I decided to go back to basics and check a few manual settings.
I took out all trims and did the mechanical set up for the swash plate all went well the swash plate seemed to move up and down fairly level but as soon as I exit the program it cocks backward and the rear of the swash plate is no longer level, When I slide the stick up and down the gap progressively increases, this has always been a problem and when I fly I have to constantly hold my stick forward and slightly to the right, any suggestions? I have 90 my servos as best as possible. Regards, Peter

 

[fran11784]

What controller are you using? Is that a V2 700 with bell cranks?

Edit, ah never mind, I see your earlier thread. Thought I could help but not a 3GX guy....
T

 

[Tony]

This is a common issue if you are using the 3GX. I have no idea why it does it other than I'm guessing you are on one of the later firmware's.

 

[Peter Vice]

What controller are you using? Is that a V2 700 with bell cranks?

Edit, ah never mind, I see your earlier thread. Thought I could help but not a 3GX guy....
T

Thanks, I also noticed when I tilt the heli the swash plate is not moving

 

[Peter Vice]

This is a common issue if you are using the 3GX. I have no idea why it does it other than I'm guessing you are on one of the later firmware's.

Hi Tony, Sorry if I sound rude but what kind of an answer is " Its a common problem" I dont know much about this subject but what I noticed my swash plate is not level once I go out of the program, when I compensate by moving my stick to level the swash plate it needs the same compensation when I fly. As mentioned before I have to continually hold my stick forward and to the right for it to stay level if I let go it comes back into my face rather quickly, yes I have v5 latest. I have watched many videos and all say do not move on to the next step until swash plate level . If this is a common problem I dont see how anyone can fly safely, Peter

 

[Tony]

I will start off by saying, I have supported the 3GX way beyond what anyone else would call its usable life. After everyone else gave up on it and moved on, I was still there making videos, trying to figure out exactly what settings to use to make for stable flight and keep people in the air without harm. I tried for many years to support this gyro, but the older they get, the more they are failing.

What I meant by "This is a common problem" is that, with the 3GX, this is a common problem... I have not found a solution to this issue even after hours of research and trial and error, It is just a common issue. Also as stated, it is a very common issue in firmware over 4.0.

I still try to help with the 3GX, but when I start seeing issues like you are having, I have no choice but to highly suggest upgrading gyro's. Your last statement there sums it up. This is a 700 size helicopter which can, and have, severely injured and even killed people in the past because of mechanical failures. I do not want to see something happen to anyone or anything because the 3GX decided to freak out, which they do from time to time. And it gets worse with age. But your statement of "I don't see how anyone can fly safely" is 100% the truth when it comes to a 3GX on anything over a 450.

Can they be setup to be safe? This is the question that two years ago I would have said a definite YES. But now days, I'm more on the no side of things.

I could have sworn you had said you were going to put another gyro on this helicopter in another thread. I must be getting different threads mixed up.

I do hope this better explains my statement.

 

[Peter Vice]

Hi Tony, thank you for your patience. I mentioned in another thread I have bought a new 700E with the beast X system, and only wanted to assemble and fly when I felt more competent, if you are saying the 3GX is so unreliable that I cant fix the angled swash plate by some means then clearly I must re think my strategy. The only thing I do know for certain is the swash plate has always been slightly at an angle but now not safe or acceptable for a novice pilot like me to use. Thank you for trying

 

[Tony]

There is a lot of information pertaining to the issues with the 3GX and the last thing I'm trying to do is overwhelm anyone with information. Because there is a lot of it. With that said though, here is a little more info on the 3GX and some of the issues.

Verions 2.1, in my opinion, was the last stable release and is the only version that I use if/when I need to test out a 3GX. This version is lacking some of the features of the later versions, but it set's up pretty easy and more times than not, doesn't have any issues. With that said though, V2.1 I can only suggest for 450 and under size helicopters.

V3.0 and 3.1 have HORRIBLE tipping issues when you are on the ground. I know, "just get it in the air", and that is the best solution to this issue seeing as when 3.1 is in the air, it is absolutely fantastic. But! You have to spool it up first before getting into the air. The only way to do this is to let the helicopter spool up less than half way and 'pop' it into the air and let it finish spooling up while hovering.

V4.0 had some tail issues and some swash issues. I didn't do much testing on this as it was the shortest release if I remember correctly. But when I see tail issues, I move on immediately.

V5.0, as you are seeing, has some really weird issues. When I was running 5, if I give any kind of rudder input, lets say right rudder from nose in to right side in (90º), Once I let go of the stick, the helicopter would snap back 180º facing nose left or left side in. This was by far the hardest helicopter to control and get back on the ground safely. The other issue which doesn't happen with all of the 3GX gyros is exactly what you are seeing. You will set it up perfectly, swash is level in DIR, but once you get ready to fly, you have an uneven swash that causes drifting. At first I thought this was Elevator Pre-Comp, but not even playing with that setting would tune this out.

My best suggestion is to get a BX, MB, or Ikon2. Expecially with a 700. The components in the 3GX are getting pretty old and even units that were perfectly fine a year ago are starting to show signs of issues. Better to replace they gyro and spend $200 now rather than causing a crash resulting in $400 in repair parts and also $200 for the gyro. FWIW, I highly suggest the ikon, but if you have experience and trust the BX or MB, go with one of those.

 

[fran11784]

IMO, I use the microbeast in all my scale builds and Ikon or Neo on my sport pod and booms. Its my feeling for a beginner if you have a beastx on hand that would be the way to go.
T

 

[Peter Vice]

There is a lot of information pertaining to the issues with the 3GX and the last thing I'm trying to do is overwhelm anyone with information. Because there is a lot of it. With that said though, here is a little more info on the 3GX and some of the issues.

Verions 2.1, in my opinion, was the last stable release and is the only version that I use if/when I need to test out a 3GX. This version is lacking some of the features of the later versions, but it set's up pretty easy and more times than not, doesn't have any issues. With that said though, V2.1 I can only suggest for 450 and under size helicopters.

V3.0 and 3.1 have HORRIBLE tipping issues when you are on the ground. I know, "just get it in the air", and that is the best solution to this issue seeing as when 3.1 is in the air, it is absolutely fantastic. But! You have to spool it up first before getting into the air. The only way to do this is to let the helicopter spool up less than half way and 'pop' it into the air and let it finish spooling up while hovering.

V4.0 had some tail issues and some swash issues. I didn't do much testing on this as it was the shortest release if I remember correctly. But when I see tail issues, I move on immediately.

V5.0, as you are seeing, has some really weird issues. When I was running 5, if I give any kind of rudder input, lets say right rudder from nose in to right side in (90º), Once I let go of the stick, the helicopter would snap back 180º facing nose left or left side in. This was by far the hardest helicopter to control and get back on the ground safely. The other issue which doesn't happen with all of the 3GX gyros is exactly what you are seeing. You will set it up perfectly, swash is level in DIR, but once you get ready to fly, you have an uneven swash that causes drifting. At first I thought this was Elevator Pre-Comp, but not even playing with that setting would tune this out.

My best suggestion is to get a BX, MB, or Ikon2. Expecially with a 700. The components in the 3GX are getting pretty old and even units that were perfectly fine a year ago are starting to show signs of issues. Better to replace they gyro and spend $200 now rather than causing a crash resulting in $400 in repair parts and also $200 for the gyro. FWIW, I highly suggest the ikon, but if you have experience and trust the BX or MB, go with one of those.

Hi Tony,
After a lot of head scratching and soul searching and listening to your advice it seems I have three options available to me.
1. To sell my heli as is.
2. To start my new heli build watching your videos.
3. To take the Beast X out of my new helicopter kit and install it in my old heli and practice flying as I intended with my old heli.
The real issue is no matter which route I take I have to do the full electronic set up with the Beast X, a daunting task, also robbing parts from a very expensive kit goes against any form of logic. Been an ex Rhoidesian we never quit so as the saying goes for Queen and Country Ill press on.
Thank you again I am sure as I progress with my next build ill hound you for more information, regards Peter

 

[Tony]

I wouldn't look at it as a daunting task but more of a learning experience. The BX is actually quite easy to setup and works great when you are done. And as always, we will help you with any step you may need help with.

Been an ex Rhoidesian we never quit so as the saying goes for Queen and Country Ill press on.

I'm hoping this doesn't mean you are going to try to keep using that 3GX. If the swash is falling, there is something wrong with it. this is not normal behavior and could end very badly. I hope I'm just reading that wrong.

So let me ask this. Are you completely opposed to purchasing a new gyro? If so, I'm sure someone on here would be willing to sell one used to you that would be better than the 3GX.

 

[murankar]

To be brutally honest here, a k-bar by hobbyking is more reliable than a 3gx. Now a 700 the k-bar mini needs one mod and its going to be just fine. That mod is the moving of the servo positive and negative to the dedicated rx.

You could also look at the spirit. There are other budget gyros out there. I just won't suggest them. I never used them and can't back any claims.

 

[Admiral]

Hi Peter, I went through all the pain and suffering of tying to get three 3GX units going two on 450 size and one on a 500, logic told me these thing had to work and I persisted, after several explainable crashes and the fact that Align gave up on them as well I thought I had better do the same. Since then I have run CopterX, K-Bar,Turnigy, AR7200BX, E-Bar, BeastX, BeastX+ and iKon & iKon2 the things they all had in common was that they all worked and all work better than the 3GX.

I've settled on the iKons and have them in all my models now, I started with second hand iKons and am slowly upgrading to iKon2 as I can afford it, why, I like the iKon features and programming and I am slowly learning all the fine adjustment that can be made, the guy I fly with is doing the same but with all BeastX Plus. The point I'm making is what ever you decide on using plan on using it on all your helicopters that way you will become very familiar with all aspect of those devices. I'm not saying go all iKon that was my choice you already have a BeastX, that is a good solid starting point and if funds are an issue there are plenty of BeastX clones on the market that appear to work very well for a fraction of the price.

 

[Cyclone 7]

Howzit, fellow ex-Rhodie! Follow the sound advice above and give up on the 3GX would be my advice too - you will only be in for a 'ton of grief' if you persist with it.

Setting up the BeastX is actually very simple & easy if you follow the instructions - Tony's video tutorials on the AR7200BX are well worth watching a few times over. I can literally set the AR7210BX up in a matter of minutes these days.

 

[Peter Vice]

To be brutally honest here, a k-bar by hobbyking is more reliable than a 3gx. Now a 700 the k-bar mini needs one mod and its going to be just fine. That mod is the moving of the servo positive and negative to the dedicated rx.

You could also look at the spirit. There are other budget gyros out there. I just won't suggest them. I never used them and can't back any claims.

Tell me more what is a k-bar I have an account with hobby king. The real issue is not finances its doing the installation, Mechanically I have no issues but when it comes to the programming of the radio and computer I hit a brick wall. I have been a tradesman all my life,I have qualification in three fields. Unless I have a point by point instruction I am helpless. Peter

 

[Peter Vice]

Howzit, fellow ex-Rhodie! Follow the sound advice above and give up on the 3GX would be my advice too - you will only be in for a 'ton of grief' if you persist with it.

Setting up the BeastX is actually very simple & easy if you follow the instructions - Tony's video tutorials on the AR7200BX are well worth watching a few times over. I can literally set the AR7210BX up in a matter of minutes these days.

Good morning Cyclone, howzit back. I said I am Rhodesian not a fool, Tony has been wonderful but there is always this question in my head, "What am I going to do with my old heli once I build my new with a Beast X . During the sanction days, not sure if you are old enough to remember we threw nothing away, as the saying goes A boer maak a plan. My need to get my old heli going was to still fly and build my new heli at leisure. The winds of change are blowing. Peter

 

[Peter Vice]

I wouldn't look at it as a daunting task but more of a learning experience. The BX is actually quite easy to setup and works great when you are done. And as always, we will help you with any step you may need help with.


I'm hoping this doesn't mean you are going to try to keep using that 3GX. If the swash is falling, there is something wrong with it. this is not normal behavior and could end very badly. I hope I'm just reading that wrong.

So let me ask this. Are you completely opposed to purchasing a new gyro? If so, I'm sure someone on here would be willing to sell one used to you that would be better than the 3GX.

Hi Tony no I am not going to carry on, I was going to try setting it up again from scratch to give me the experience. When you say buy a new gyro do you mean to replace the 3GX or to add on a gyro to the existing 3GX. I am still pursuing the option of using my old heli to practice flying only I really do not want to crash a new helicopter. Another gentelmn suggested a k-bar from hobby king is his an option?

 

[Cyclone 7]

Believe me, I am old enough to remember the sanctions busting days well - fun although somewhat nefarious at times.

No need to throw the old heli away - merely replace the GX3 as has been suggested above. You intimated earlier that you are not financially constrained so that would be the best course of action, in my opinion. Far better to get the old one up and running so that you can learn on that(and inevitably bash it around!) whilst building the new one in your own good time. That way, you will be learning on two fronts at the same time and each experience will feed the other, to the good.

 

[Tony]

When you say buy a new gyro do you mean to replace the 3GX or to add on a gyro to the existing 3GX

purchase a new gyro to replace the 3GX is what I meant.

Another gentelmn suggested a k-bar from hobby king is his an option

I have never had any dealings with the Kbar so I have no input on that gyro. I think he has run them and they are great, but do not try to upgrade them. Those are clones of the V-Bar from Mikado and if the firmware detects it's a clone, it will brick it (rendering it useless). For this gyro, I have no videos or knowledge of setting it up so it would be up to other members to help out.

when it comes to the programming of the radio and computer I hit a brick wall

As always, we are more than happy to help out. Just let us know what gyro you go with and I'm sure someone can help. If you get an Ikon or a BX, there are a lot of people that can help including myself. If you get one of those two, I have videos that you can follow step by step.

 

[Peter Vice]

purchase a new gyro to replace the 3GX is what I meant.


I have never had any dealings with the Kbar so I have no input on that gyro. I think he has run them and they are great, but do not try to upgrade them. Those are clones of the V-Bar from Mikado and if the firmware detects it's a clone, it will brick it (rendering it useless). For this gyro, I have no videos or knowledge of setting it up so it would be up to other members to help out.


As always, we are more than happy to help out. Just let us know what gyro you go with and I'm sure someone can help. If you get an Ikon or a BX, there are a lot of people that can help including myself. If you get one of those two, I have videos that you can follow step by step.

Hi Tony another head banging session today. Just for experience I choose new model and tried to bind. I know it can be a sod to bind the 3GX I looked up you post on binding, I have stood on my head gone into the next room , touched the radio to the heli prayed to the good Lord, had lunch, had a tea break, thinking next of a stiff brandy. Both satellites fast flashing on 22ms the only thing I am not sure of is DSMX or DSMX. Do I need to change something in the radio, Peter