450 Scale Flying is my bag but need help with setup

flyguyddt

New Member
I am so very impressed with the new helicopters and all the 3D maneuvers they can do. But that's not what I really enjoy. I am a scale flyer. I want to build Huey's, Jet Rangers, Agusta A-109's and more. But they don't do funnels, inverted back spins or anything of the type. They are just realistic and stable. How do I set up a DX6i with a TREX 450 or Blade 450 to achieve this? I would really appreciate any assistance possible from all of you. I suspect there are things to do to the actual heli but also D/R and Expo and ??? Tony, thanks for all your videos and how-to's already. You are the reason I still have un-crashed helis!!!

Dave in Utah
 

Tony

Staff member
I went ahead and moved this into the 450 section. It's amazing that you have "uncrashed" heli's lol. That is a rarity on here. As for the setup, the first thing you will want to do is have good electronics. I'm guessing with your trex, you have the 410 cyclics and either the 420 or 520 tail servo with a 790 gyro. If so, you are set. I would set everything up according to the instruction book as Align has great instructions and you get your heli very close if not perfect on the first shot.

Because you are wanting to fly scale, I'm sure you will not want to fly with a flybared helicopter. Going with a flybarless head will add an even more realistic look to your scale bird be it with a 2, 4, or 5 blade heli. When you go flybarless, you will need a 3 axis gyro, and the 3GX is a great system offered by align. There is also one that Lee has purchased. It's the 3 axis gyro and a DSMX Rx built into one. Great performance as well. The upside to this is you have one less item on your heli. I want to say it's called the BeastX, but I will let him answer that one.

Going FBL will allow you to have a much more stable, yet responsive helicopter. Since the gyro will be helping you, it should make flying a little easier. the one issue that I think you will have is with the bodies with retracts. Those require an extra channel, and the one that you need, the gyro plugs into. Now, if you want to run your gyro in Rate Mode for the ultimate scale look, then you can unplug channel 5 and plug your retracts in there. Rate mode will only stop the movement of the tail, but it will not return the tail to the "heading" it was facing before it was moved. Most scale guys that I have talked to fly in rate mode because of the way it looks. You will have more of a weather vein effect than you will with a HH gyro. And sideways flight will require lots of rudder input.

As for dual rate and expo, this is a new territory for me. Fiberglass bodies are heavier than these heli's were made for, so you will have to play with your pitch and throttle curves. however, if I was starting out with this setup, here is what I would do. I know you are not wanting to do anything in idle up or 3D, but you need to setup the head in idle up. This way, you can know for a fact that mid stick is at 50% and 0 degrees of pitch. Full stick should be around 12 degrees (I usually say 11, but we are dealing with a heavier bird here). and you need negative 12 as well. My videos explain in detail how to achieve this setting, but I will post it here if you need more help.

Now unlike my videos, on a scale heli I would suggest that you fly only in idle up or have a very flat throttle curve. This will keep it more realistic. I would set it up where you have 80% power, or even 70% power at all times, but keep your pitch settings around 45, 47.5, 50, 75, 100. This will allow you to spool the heli up on the ground and give you just enough negative pitch to keep you on the ground.

Dual rates. I would set the high rates just as the book describes, then set low rate to 70% and try it. If low rate is still too twitchy, then lower it to 60 and so on. do this until you like how it feels.

Expo is something that not everyone likes, but I love. I have just started flying my planes (Edge and Extra) on full rates all the time. And the only way to do a smooth takeoff and landing (my landings still suck lmao) is to have very slow servo movements at the beginning travels of stick movement. This allows for a more precice movement and when you are talking scale, that is what you are looking for. I would start off on 45% expo on high rates and 35% on low rates to start with. Fly it and see how you like it. If it's still too twitchy (and I'm sure you are not a stick banger unless you mean to), then raise the expo.

I hope this helps. If there is something that I have missed, let me know and I will cover it.

Also, welcome to the forum, I hope to see some flight vids very soon. yes, I want to see your planes as well lol.
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
Can't add anything to Tonys advice. Only to tell you the RX he was talking about that i have is the Spektrum AR7200BX a spektrum receiver with a beastx FBL unit all in one. look forward to seeing your creations. I want to do a scale bird, but can't afford the time or space to build one just now.
 

flyguyddt

New Member
Thanks!! The first one I am finishing is an Agusta which will be painted in 'Life Flight' colors and markings. I also fly a Blade SR Huey. It will be fun to share them. This forum is already great!!
 

Tony

Staff member
We need pictures, we live for pictures, we can't breathe unless we have pictures. And we don't sleep at night if we dont have video... :biggrin1:

if you are still working on them, start up a "Project" thread and show us the progress of the build. It's great learning for those that have not done this before.
 

JEXFIRE

Member
I put a Hausler 450 (trex clone) in an airwolf fuselage and it was pretty straight forward. I added a little foam from a trashed park flyer in the tail and some spare linkage rod connecting the top of the frame to the fuse to cut down on vibration. Theres still some vibration probably due to slop in the head, blade balancing etc, but its liveable and doesnt effect gyro performance. As far as tx settings i really didnt change anything at all. my battery and speed control do get alot warmer being enclosed but i still manage 6-7 minute flight times with no drop in performance. the addition to a fuse does tame the 450 down and i've noticed that it makes it a bit easier to fly and looks badass in the air. if anyone has got any great ideas on eliminating vibration let me know. Im currently putting a trex 500 esp in a apache fuse from RC Aerodyne with a Align 4 blade head. will try to take some pics and vids and post them.
 

Tony

Staff member
The way I have found to reduce vibration is to one balance the blades. Not just on the little teeder-todder balancer, that does it with the CoG of the blades. You need a mechanical gram scale and get them exactly the same weight. Then, adjust the CoG with the tape you added to achieve the perfect balance. Once that is done, do the same with the tail blades. The tail is not as bad, but with as fast as they spin, they can cause a harmonic vibration. Next is the main shaft and main gear. Make sure they are perfectly straight and true. Get a set of upgraded dampers for the head and make sure your feathering shaft is straight. The 500 you can get the Align dampers with the sleeve, it's worth it! Next is the flybar. Use a set of digital calipers and get the metal rod centered perfectly. Then screw on the flybar paddles and put them the exact same length apart, again with the digital calipers.

This should result in a "non vibrating" helicopter. However, all helicopters will have a harmonic vibration as they spool up. Just as long as it's not there when you get up to normal operating speeds. Hope this helps.
 

Tony

Staff member
What tools do you need? I'm trying to get a good idea of what to stock in the store for our members.
 
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