General Interesting idea - curved rotor and tail blades

Westy

LEGEND
hi all .... I was just watching the latest Mikado video (which was totally awesome) and was thinking.... why has no one designed and tested Curved main rotor and tail blades.

I would have thought that it would have been tried?

The curved leading edge I would have thought would make the blade more efficient as it would flex and twist under load.

The only risk I would see is potential boom strike!

any ideas on this .... does anyone know how to lay up a set of blades to try it out?

you could run a test flight with a normal set of high performance blades and run a current load test on them and try the curved blades .... any loweing in amperage would suggest better lift and efficiency
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
Funny you say this


Swept rotor wing

Check out Tim jones new rotor blades : cyclones

Swept back on the leading edge and bumps in the middle to strengthen where the most lift and power is generated

It's pretty crazy


:D

Coming out in market this summer

Fly safe!! :) have fun!
 

Westy

LEGEND
hmmmm .... that is similar to what I was imagining .... but I was thinking of 2 things....

1. having more sweep than that....

2. looking at the blade from 0 pitch angle.... putting a sweep on the tip (along the leading edge to trailing edge) horizontally up on an angle of about 30 - 45 degrees (experimenting would need to be done). and also sweeping that from the leading edge and sweeping it back .... kind of like you see on an eagles wings when they are gliding.... * go look at a video of a eagle flying and watch its wing tips change angle .... it is a thing of wonder and beauty

I am sure you would be able to do it on a set of rotor blades....

Also ... is there any reason why you could not put a 5º twist in the blade from the root to the tip???? I would think this would improve its efficiency also.

I have read that Boing did this to their wing tips and it reduced 20% off thier annual fuel bill
 
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Stambo

Well-Known Member
If I understand what you are saying correctly a curved rotor blade I would think, would impart a degree of twist to the blade grip. Not only would that require a much stronger servo to counteract this but would also tend to try and twist the rotor blade itself.
Also the increased mass having to change its pitch on every revolution would put greater stresses on linkages etc.
I think this would be courting disaster.
I would like to see the tests but only through the eye of a lens. :)
 

Tony

Staff member
Yeah, the way I'm seeing it in my head is just asking for a boom strike with very little pitch. Anything that is not straight out from the blade grip will have off tracking. Even the trailing edge of the blades we run now have off tracking and drop down on positive pitch, but not by a lot.
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
If you give it 5º of twist, what about inverted? Your pitch will be wrong, unless you build in flex.
I saw the cyclone blades a while ago. They will be out next month.
 

pvolcko

Well-Known Member
My two cents. And that's all it's probably worth, at best. :)

1) More sweep creates boom strike and vibration issues I would imagine. If the blade is too stiff, or head speed to low, it may strike on positive pitch maneuvers (trailing edge pushed lower in the disc due to sweep). The more pitch applied also the greater flutter induced by the sweep moving through the air at high angle of attack, meaning vibration. Not stiff enough (allowing flex toward the tips to avoid strikes) and you lose efficiency improvement, get more flutter and vibration, etc. and you increase potential for strikes in negative pitch. With the low profile DFC heads so popular now I'm kind of surprised they're trying this at all. Maybe they recommend smaller blade lengths than normal with the swept tip design since you will be getting more effective lift with the swept design. That could help reduce some of the strike potential.

2) If I'm understanding what you're describing, they do this on fixed wings to reduce tip drag and provide tip stability. They also do it on those giant ceiling fan blades for the same reason. However, they cannot do it for a helicopter blade. These surfaces that help provide stability to fixed wings and fans that don't move anywhere would create turbulence and instability in the forward and aft positions of the rotor disc in forward flight. Also, on a variable pitch blade the efficiency gains in positive pitch would be harms in negative pitch, again resulting in uneven performance between positive and negative pitch uses. If you try to achieve the tip stabilizing upward curve (in positive pitch) with flexible blade designs (which would flex to create it in positive or negative pitch) you end up sacrificing overall blade lift and in negative pitch you again run into boom strike issues. On slow moving, always upright (or at least always positive collective) helis this might be made to work, however forward speed is your tradeoff. So can you get increased efficiency at an airspeed high enough to make it worth while? My guess is not, or else someone would be doing it already.

3) Twist? Like in a propeller? You could do this to give you greater lift efficiency in one pitch direction, but it would hurt the opposing pitch direction and it would hinder forward flight dynamics. Setup would become more complex. Requiring negative pitch to achieve neutral lift and possibly varying negative pitch depending on head speed. The further out the blade the twist angle extended it would hamper efficiency in forward flight and screw more and more with the lift efficiency of the aft part of the rotor disc in forward flight, much like high lift efficiency fixed pitch blades do. The less it extends out the more flat the profile is and the less lift enhancement you get.

There may be a balance that can be reached for specific applications or even for general purpose hovering and forward flight only helis, but that's not where the CP heli market is at right now. Smack is where its at and I don't think there's a twist profile that makes sense in that use case. And even in lower performance flight models, the twist is going to create vortexes more so than in a flat blade design, which the aft of the rotor disc will have to cut through causing lower lift efficiency over the bulk of the blade surface, not enough to compensate for the increase toward the center. Maybe for a hovering specific application, such as on the osprey where they use props for vertical takeoff and auto-rotors with low airspeed potential, or heavy lift helicopters with slow airspeed requirements, but for general purpose or performance oriented flight, I don't think it makes sense.
 

xokia

Active Member
curved tail blades are already done on the trex 250 I dont think they work any better than straight tail blades.
 
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