Batteries Lipo battery restriction
- Thread starter D.O.G.
- Start date
trainrider06
Active Member
They are probably doing this because they either loaded up on getting a stock of batteries to keep stock and are rationing them out, or they expect that slow boat to be pretty slow (since that's the only way they'll be able to get em now) and want to keep a stock in supply, until the slow boat gets here.
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Smoggie
Well-Known Member
This is likely to be due to new shipping restrictions on Lithium-ion batteries that came into force in April. The new rules require special 'dangerous goods' shipping (which would be ridiculously expensive) for any batteries with a stored energy greater than 100 Watt-Hours (a single 6s 5000mAh is about 125Wh) or if the total cells is greater than 8 or more than two batteries in the package: www.ups.com/media/news/en/ca/intl_l...LoAFC9i5-MRWabJ1Q&sig2=lrXwy_tzLBerGwxpS3OZLQ
These rules technically only apply to transport by air but ground couriers may decide to apply them too.
These rules technically only apply to transport by air but ground couriers may decide to apply them too.
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murankar
Staff member
All I know is what I have seen floating around the net. I dont know how valid it is or the credibility of the source. But rumor has it the FAA is trying to stop the shipping of lipos via air. What this means is that the sender has no choice but to ship ground. Furthermore this means that shipments are going to be limited due to hazmat licenses with the currier. As of right now I think UPS is the only currier that can handle lipos, plus I think they are limited to how many watt hours the packs can be in total. Again this is just info I saw floating on the net so as for the credibility of it, well you'll have to make your own call.
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D.O.G.
Goblin 380 Supporter
When I ordered my batteries from A Main Hobbies last week they sent me an e-mail tell me that. I should of saved the it but didn't. I did E-mail them again to verify what they sent to me and I'm waiting for a reply. I will save it this time and share with everyone once I get it.
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This is what I ordered when I heard about this
4 from A Main Hobby for my 450, 4 from Hobby Partz and 4 from HobbyKing for the 500
- - - Updated - - -
This is what I ordered when I heard about this
4 from A Main Hobby for my 450, 4 from Hobby Partz and 4 from HobbyKing for the 500
trainrider06
Active Member
Yeah, I am beginning to think that the FAA, and these government restrictions is going to eventually kill off the hobby for average Joe's and people new to the hobby. 
Tony
Staff member
That is exactly what is going to happen. It's only a matter of time. And it's all because of multirotors and the idiots that fly them where they are not supposed to. But, it is what it is and when it dies, we will find a new hobby. Like putting small block chevy's in go-karts....
trainrider06
Active Member
Hey I'd like that hobby, but I hate grease under my fingernails anymore! We could have funny cart races!
D.O.G.
Goblin 380 Supporter
Tony, mail coming your way.
Heliman450
Well-Known Member
Having given a lot of thought to the actual hazard the batteries present, I went ahead and bought storage bags to keep my batteries in and limit the number that are stored together in the same place at home and in the shop anyway. I published my own charging system here My Charging System to cover the point.
The shipment of the batteries is really only a matter for airlines if some idiot wants to turn them into devices capable of bringing the plane down. Shipment by road is another matter, it's down to legislators wanting to be seen to do something amongst all the general panic that exists. Now if the batteries were to be transported strapped to an LPG truck or something else really hazardous, then it's a different matter entirely.
I can see a reason for the batteries to be sold and shipped inside the proper storage bags and limiting the total number of batteries in the delivery trucks to a specified maximum mAh. Just needs thought, knowledge and common sense.
The shipment of the batteries is really only a matter for airlines if some idiot wants to turn them into devices capable of bringing the plane down. Shipment by road is another matter, it's down to legislators wanting to be seen to do something amongst all the general panic that exists. Now if the batteries were to be transported strapped to an LPG truck or something else really hazardous, then it's a different matter entirely.
I can see a reason for the batteries to be sold and shipped inside the proper storage bags and limiting the total number of batteries in the delivery trucks to a specified maximum mAh. Just needs thought, knowledge and common sense.
murankar
Staff member
To be honest I am not a fan of Lipo bags. I would rather invest the money into ammo cans. You buy them fairly cheap and they can be vented if needed. You can charge in them if you wish. One thing I would suggest is rubberizing the inside and any sharp edges. Next: rarely does "mail" ship via commercial air liners. USPS, UPS, FedEx, DHL and whoever; all have their air liners. Not sure what a terrorist would gain by hijacking one of those. It would be like an episode of storage wars and even if the plane was hijacked whats the likely hood of the bad guy knowing that there are lipos on board.
Is there a risk with lipo batteries? Yes to some degree there is a risk. If your handling the pack in accordance with the manufactures suggested best practices your chances of failure are diminished. Now for storage, whats one thing fire needs to live? HEAT, what ever material you talk about it needs to reach a certain temperature in order to burn, flash point if you will. You could be the safest Lipo owner around with metal cans and everything, but you stored your packs in the attic in the summer time. For storage I personally keep them in the refrigerator. All I am trying to do is maintain a lower internal temp. This does two things, keeps the battery healthier for a longer time frame when not used and two keeps the internal temps below flash point. Is this fool proof, No but its better than nothing at all.
Is there a risk with lipo batteries? Yes to some degree there is a risk. If your handling the pack in accordance with the manufactures suggested best practices your chances of failure are diminished. Now for storage, whats one thing fire needs to live? HEAT, what ever material you talk about it needs to reach a certain temperature in order to burn, flash point if you will. You could be the safest Lipo owner around with metal cans and everything, but you stored your packs in the attic in the summer time. For storage I personally keep them in the refrigerator. All I am trying to do is maintain a lower internal temp. This does two things, keeps the battery healthier for a longer time frame when not used and two keeps the internal temps below flash point. Is this fool proof, No but its better than nothing at all.
Heliman450
Well-Known Member
Hi Matthias, always good to hear other opinions on topics.
First point is that not everyone around the world has such ready access to ammo cases. I suppose when hobbyists choose to shoot up their old batteries using their firearms that in itself gives ready access to lots of spare ammo cases LoL!
I wasn't thinking of suppliers using passenger airlines, the nutters I refer to are those who might want to see themselves and others off in a big way. Incidentally, there might not be many passengers on a carrier's plane but they still make a hell of a mess when they come down!
Finally, the batteries don't have a flash point as such. The heat causes a short to occur and that's what starts the fire, it's a chemical fire from then on. Provided the battery is kept in good condition and handled properly there should be no problem, but one never knows. Where I live there would be absolutely no insurance cover if I didn't take adequate precautions leaving me to foot the bill for any damage to our rented apartment and those of the others in the building. I'd much rather pay for the correct storage bags as seen by the authorities. When they sift through the debris and find the seat of the fire at least my back's covered.
You pay your money and take your chances.
First point is that not everyone around the world has such ready access to ammo cases. I suppose when hobbyists choose to shoot up their old batteries using their firearms that in itself gives ready access to lots of spare ammo cases LoL!
I wasn't thinking of suppliers using passenger airlines, the nutters I refer to are those who might want to see themselves and others off in a big way. Incidentally, there might not be many passengers on a carrier's plane but they still make a hell of a mess when they come down!
Finally, the batteries don't have a flash point as such. The heat causes a short to occur and that's what starts the fire, it's a chemical fire from then on. Provided the battery is kept in good condition and handled properly there should be no problem, but one never knows. Where I live there would be absolutely no insurance cover if I didn't take adequate precautions leaving me to foot the bill for any damage to our rented apartment and those of the others in the building. I'd much rather pay for the correct storage bags as seen by the authorities. When they sift through the debris and find the seat of the fire at least my back's covered.
You pay your money and take your chances.
murankar
Staff member
Actually they can be ordered just like any other item. If one can order rc parts then they have the ability to order ammo cans. They are offered from many outlets and accessible to who ever wants them. All I know about fires is that heat is a factor, if your remove the heat then an item cant reach combustion.
Lipo bags on there own is nothing more than a few extra minutes to get a fire extinguisher. Lipo bags WILL NOT stop a fire but retard the combustion. Now a lipo bag in combination with a metal container with environmental controlers then you should be golden.
Lipo bags on there own is nothing more than a few extra minutes to get a fire extinguisher. Lipo bags WILL NOT stop a fire but retard the combustion. Now a lipo bag in combination with a metal container with environmental controlers then you should be golden.
Smoggie
Well-Known Member
I have to admit to being a bit sloppy in terms of liPo storage. I have a couple of ammo boxed (they are easily available in Europe on eBay, military surplus) but I rarely use them due to laziness more than anything. Most of my batteries are piled up like a stack of bricks in my 'man cave' right next to my helis and planes. Long term storage batteries I put in the fridge purely to reduce the rate of degradation. On the plus side both fridge and 'man cave' are in a separate building from the family home, so even if the worst did happen it's only my 'toys' that would burn.
For what it's worth the only Lipos I've ever seen (or even heard of) to actually burst into flames are those which have been over charged well beyond 4.2V per cell, and those that were fully charged then punctured in a crash.
With modern chargers you have to be pretty dumb to over charge a LiPo. A crash is always a risk but at least that wont cause your house to burn down.
For what it's worth the only Lipos I've ever seen (or even heard of) to actually burst into flames are those which have been over charged well beyond 4.2V per cell, and those that were fully charged then punctured in a crash.
With modern chargers you have to be pretty dumb to over charge a LiPo. A crash is always a risk but at least that wont cause your house to burn down.
Heliman450
Well-Known Member
Hi Steve, over here one needs at least a million Swiss Francs to buy somewhere you can walk around that's why the vast majority of people live in rented flats. Not being rich enough for buying here I'll stick with buying the best precautions I can afford. You never know, maybe one day I'll own enough batteries that I'll hunt down an ammo case or two on E-Bay to store them in 
The paranoia that seems to exist against the hobby in recent times seems to have no bounds. We live in a direct democracy here and once the signatures are on the list there can be a vote and legislation will just happen. Tough but it makes for a good system overall and a high quality of life for the majority. Maybe I'll drive over and leave my collection for you to have if the thumb points down for our hobby
P.S. Isn't knocking nails through old batteries similar to crash damage?
The paranoia that seems to exist against the hobby in recent times seems to have no bounds. We live in a direct democracy here and once the signatures are on the list there can be a vote and legislation will just happen. Tough but it makes for a good system overall and a high quality of life for the majority. Maybe I'll drive over and leave my collection for you to have if the thumb points down for our hobby
P.S. Isn't knocking nails through old batteries similar to crash damage?
murankar
Staff member
i dont own lipo bags or ammo cans. i dont store packs above 3.7 -3.8 volts and keep in the ice chest when not in use. Beyond that i dont do much. I keep an eye on the packs through out charging and thats it for charging. Anything beyond that I have not done. SHould something happen then Ill worry a safety measure for now its store, charge , fly and repeat
Heliman450
Well-Known Member
Sounds good to me. Great for readers to be able to see and consider their own approach.
I'd like to hear your definition of 'store'. I also apply similar voltages to my 'not being used' batteries but how long do you reckon that is?