Power Supply's using a 12v car battery in series.

[murankar]

I don't know why this popped in my head today but it did and now I am curious.

Okay I was thinking of how to setup a 24v battery bank in my van with a solar panel to charge the bank.

Again this is a far fetched idea that may never come to fruition but I am curious.


Now if/when I finally complete my charge case I will have a decent charger. With that I will need portable power to run the system. At the moment I am running 2250 3S packs which have a 5c charge rate. I may want to add some l.e.ds to the system for 12v lighting but that's about it for now.

Now would I want deep cycle batteries or standard car batteries? How many flight pack charge cycles can I get off this kind of setup at full 5s charge rate? I know that their are no solid numbers just a ball park.


Next how big of a solar panel would be needed to keep the bank charged enough to keep me running. If I have to wait for the bank to charge I guess it would be fine as long as it dies not ground me for the day.

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[Tony]

Deep cycle, or standard. This is going to depend on how you charge the batteries (the car batteries). If you are going to continuously run them on the solar panel, then you want standard. Deep cycle is for things like race cars and boats where there is no charge going into them all the time. They want, and like to be drained almost completely, then recharged back to full capacity.

As for the solar panel, you will want to look for a 25vDC setup at about 5 amps. This is what I would look for. However, you can get a much larger setup for the panels, run an AC converter on it, adn charge things that way, and you will have AC power there with you at all times that the sun is shining.

IMO, if you are charging 6 batteries at a time at 1000w, you should get a full charge out of the set of car batteries. Then, by the time you get done flying those 6 packs (with proper cool down time for the motor and ESC between flights), the solar panel should have replenished most of the power back into the bank.

 

[murankar]

The van has a luggage rack. If this ever comes to fruition the solar panel would go on the luggage rack when in use. I don't think I would need an inverter at thus point.

My concern being able to go out for a day trip to a field and not have to worry about a power source. Plus if I ever stay the night somewhere I could. I wouldn't be flying at night and if I need extra juice I could always use the van as a back up. The idea is to not rely on fuel.


My goal here is to spark some thought on the subject. Would I do this, yeah if I had the cash. If my future here at Lubrizol is long term then it very well could happen at some point.


So for me a standard battery would work just fine then. Only because I would have a way to charge it when ever the sun is out.

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[Tony]

Here is the issue with that plan. Your alternator will not charge a 24 volt system. And you don't want to hook them up in series while they are connected to the car.

IMO, I would get two yellow top Optima batteries, a 1000w power inverter, a 1000w+ solar panel setup and all of the cables. Yes, you would want to run a converter so that you can run the proper battery charger on the batteries.

 

[D.O.G.]

I hope that you don't mind if i throw this out their but how about Marine battery to power your solar light. Wife and i have a Marine battery with the solar kit from Harbor Freight. We use it to power our Cell phone,laptop, ect in case of power failure. You can get converter kits and other equipment that my help you out. Just a thought.

 

[Tony]

Marine batteries are also deep cycle, so they will work. But not powering a light, he is wanting to power a 1000w charging station.

 

[Stambo]

The big question is how much you want to draw out of them. How many batteries and how many charges in a day.
Whether you use deep cycle or car battery, they are well capable of producing way beyond what your charger can draw.
Some car batteries are capable of discharging 600 amps or more but not for too long.
Deep cycle batteries (and this is where you are wrong Tony) are just as happy to be kept fully charged as they are to be cycled, they supply much less current but for a much longer period.
A marine battery is somewhere in the middle.
I use a single marine battery on my 400w charger (sometimes 2) to keep mine and my friends 3s 1500 and 1800s charged multiple times during a day of Miniquad flying.
I charge it when I get home and have seen no ill effects. It takes very little to charge it up to full again.
I keep intending to hook it to my RC charger just to see how many MAH I put back in to it but never have.
So to answer your question, 2 deep cycle batteries will probably be fine even without a solar panel.
You could even hook an automatic charging system to your vehicle that disconnects the charger, hooks the batteries parallel and starts charging them when you start the vehicle.
It would not take much for me to draw up a diagram to do this.
You can also buy a unit to charge 24 volts from a 12 volt vehicle. http://www.sterling-power-usa.com/SterlingPower12volt-24volt50ampdcinputbatterytobatterycharger.aspx
I used to do this sort of thing for a living on motorhomes all the time before I bought my own business.

Here is another even cheaper one. http://www.powerstream.com/WC.htm

Much cheaper than solar panels.
I would suggest just buying the batteries and trying them, you can add the charging system of your choice later or just charge them when you get home.

Some info on maintaining deep cycle batteries. http://www.batteriesnorthwest.com/batteryschool.cfm?TID=2

 

[murankar]

That's sounds feasable then. I was thinking maybe 3 to 4 full charges a day on 4 2250 3s packs. I am set on the pl6 charger so that charger on 24v can do almost all of 5s charger rate on 4 packs in series.

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[murankar]

As for a diagram that would be great. That way I can see just his feasible this would be.

Now if I was to use a salvaged battery and cleaned it up could that work for a beginning system? What I mean by salvaged I mean pulled from a salvage yard.

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[callsign4223]

Here is the difference between deep cycle and standard car batteries.

Standard car batteries can put out more cranking amps, but for a very short time. They will degrade faster if discharged below 90%
Deep cycle batteries put out fewer cranking amps, but for a much longer time. They are good to be discharged down to 50%
The manufacturing difference is in the thickness of the lead plates. If I recall correctly standard car batteries use more thin plates which degrade quicker while deep cycle have fewer thicker plates with less surface area and so degrade slower.

Further reading.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question219.htm

 

[murankar]

So for an application like this a deep cycle might be better or if keeping a charge on the batteries standard car battery?

So if I am not going to discharging below 90% (using only 10% of capacity) then I should be fine as long as I have a way to replenish the lost energy.

So if I went with solar power to replenish the power I just need to find out what output I need. The goal here is to reduce my overall costs over a generator. While they are nicer to have they can get annoying.

Or I can do a charge circuit for the batteries off my main battery. Not sure how quick the recharge would be but is a feasible solution. Just need to make sure I bring extra fuel just in case.

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[Stambo]

A 12v battery from a light truck would be perfect for a start off.
Just try it and see what happens.
A light truck or a car battery can handle a high charge rate so running your vehicle with jumper cables hooked to it at a fast idle will charge it fairly quickly as long as you don't let it get too low.
Monitor the voltage and go from there as to how often you run your vehicle.
You could get what's called a VSR or voltage sensitive relay and hook it permanently to your vehicle.
That will only connect your vehicles charging system when the vehicle battery is over 13.5 volts.
If the vehicle is not running there will be no connection.
No chance of flattening the vehicle battery, really simple to hook up.
Running 24v becomes a bit more complex but it can be done with a series of relays added to the VSR.
I don't know how expensive solar panels are over there but here they cost an arm and a leg.
A VSR and a few relays or that second charger I linked above are much cheaper.

 

[murankar]

A 12v system maybe just enough for what I have. It still allow me to charge while at the field and not have to worry to much about a power source.

To be honest I don't think a 24v system would be needed at the moment. Although it would be a nice to have.

As a base its a good starting point. I will look into the voltage relay circuit. When I pick up my van I will talk to my mechanic and see what he says.

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[callsign4223]

I think your best bet would be a deep cycle battery. You probably wouldn't even need a solar charger unless you were doing A LOT of recharging. Just be sure it's fully charged before leaving home.

 

[murankar]

Thank you for the advise. I will start researching that and see what pops up. I know they are a little more expensive but would be worth it if I can get more than 4 flights at the field.

 

[vimy]

Matt, if you're going to put automotive batteries inside the cabin, where you are, best to find gel cell type batteries.

At least they are safer than wet cells as far as the electrolyte is concerned, there is no chance of an accidental acid spill.

 

[Tony]

Good call Vimy! You also don't have to worry about the danger of the gasses it puts off.

 

[murankar]

This won't be a setup where I leave it in the van while charging. I will do any and all charging on the outside of the van. Plus I will be using battery boxes to help contain any crap from the batteries.

If I can get my father in laws generator started then I can put off this project for a little bit. Right now the generator will turn over and start to run if I put fuel in the carb or use starter spray.

My guess is fuel is not flowing from the tank to the carb. I have the fuel turned on and choke has been in all positions. I notice a fuel line was disconnected and noticed a nipple on the choke. I connected the fuel line to the choked and still nothing. I realm want to get this going since its primary use is for power outages and to give my mother in law power for her breathing treatment device.

I want to use it just so it gets used between outages so it does not just sit. It has not been started in almost 2 years.

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[vimy]

This won't be a setup where I leave it in the van while charging. I will do any and all charging on the outside of the van. Plus I will be using battery boxes to help contain any crap from the batteries.

If I can get my father in laws generator started then I can put off this project for a little bit. Right now the generator will turn over and start to run if I put fuel in the carb or use starter spray.

My guess is fuel is not flowing from the tank to the carb. I have the fuel turned on and choke has been in all positions. I notice a fuel line was disconnected and noticed a nipple on the choke. I connected the fuel line to the choked and still nothing. I realm want to get this going since its primary use is for power outages and to give my mother in law power for her breathing treatment device.

I want to use it just so it gets used between outages so it does not just sit. It has not been started in almost 2 years.

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Hello Matt,

Battery boxes will leak fluid. They are not a complete seal because they have to vent gasses when the battery is charging. If there is a mishap you don't want battery acid dripping anywhere. Having said that, I know gel cells are expensive compared to wet cells (well they are here anyway).

The genny's carburettor sounds like it has blocked jets. Is it a Briggs & Statton?

 

[murankar]

Yes, power boss 1700 watt gen. His should I try and clean the carb? Not much of a motor repair guy.

No charging will be done in the vehicle. Its just not safe. At least not in my eyes. I have been looking at a bunch of info since this idea came to me. I would be removing the bank from the car after each day at the field. It would be a pita but its the only safe way to do this.

After today if I am at the club field I don't have to worry about power. Guys there will share electrons with me.

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