500 Trex 500 troubles getting off the ground consistantly

[Derek]

I am relatively new to RC Heli's, so please bear with me. The guy that setup my 500, after the build, is no longer available and I have no one near me that knows about heli's. The guys at my local hobby shop are in to cars/trucks, trains, or planes. It's frustrating. Ok, on to my problem...

My nephew, 12 years old, was flying on my Phoenix Sim last week, using my DX6i....and he thought it would be fun to change some of my settings on my DX6i. He changed my Throttle Curve and Pitch Curve and I don't remember what I had them set at. I tried to fly my 500 yesterday and it won't get off the ground until nearly 75% stick. I was furious.

My Throttle Curve is now: 0,25,50,75,100
My Pitch Curve is now: 45,47.5,50,75,100

I have no idea where he got these numbers from. Before he changed the settings, my 500 was very light on the skids at 50% throttle. Would anyone have any suggestions on what to try adjusting? I realize that it's very hard to suggest anything without actually being present and witnessing what the heli is doing, but I really need some help here.

Thanks much!

PS...my nephew will just have to stick with his Nintendo DS...no more touching my DX6i.

 

[wolfman76]

here are the settimgs givin to me by tony for the 500 throttle curve in norm mode is 0.0,25.0,50.0,75.0,100.0
stunt mode is 100.0,100.0,80.0,100.0,100.0

pitch curve in norm mode is 30.0,40.0,50.0,75.0,100.0
stunt mode is 0.0,25.0,50.0,75.0,100.0
those are the settings given to me by tony hope they help..
make sure you check your swash movement before flight to make sure he didn't mess with swash mix settings too.. if he did those are a matter of setting + or - 60 to make sure they move right directions..
let us know if that helps fix the problem... GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[Lee]

The pitch setting look fine, as long as your swash plate was set with 0º pitch at mid stick before. You could adjust the throttle curve. If you say it flys at 75% stick then that tells you from the settings you have it needs 75% throttle. Set your throttle curve to 0,60,80,80,80 see how that works for you. Just be very slow with the stick at initial spool up to allow the motor to wind itself up.
Good luck.

 

[Derek]

Thanks for your time, wolfman76. I will surely check the swash mix and I'll try those settings that you gave. It's 5:30am here, so I'll have to wait a few hours before I can try. I'm not sure the neighbors would appreciate the awesome sound of my Edge blades at 5:30 in the morning, lol. I'll try what you suggest and I'll get back with ya.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for your time, Lee. I will check it out as soon as the sun comes up, lol....and be assured...I always start the throttle up very slow. There's no sense in having to replace parts and gears because of sheer impatience, lol.

 

[Tony]

Yes, those curves are exactly what I flew mine on and it worked great. My first question is, do you have a pitch gauge? If no, get one. If yes, great and lets move on.

Unplug two of your motor wires, and flip it into idle up. Make sure your pitch curve is 0 25 50 75 100 in idle up. Put your Tx to mid stick and check your pitch. You should be at 0º pitch as Lee stated. Now, check full pitch in both positive and negative positions. The numbers should be exactly the same. If you have more positive pitch, your swash is too high and you need to shorten the links and vice versa. You should shoot for about 11º of pitch.

It can and will take a long time (hours) to completely set the head up correctly. but once done it's worth it. Just make sure at mid stick you have 0º pitch and you have about 11º of pitch at full stick high and low. Once you verify all of that and post up what your settings were to begin with, we will move on to checking and adjusting the aileron and elevator travels.

 

[Derek]

ok....we have progress... Unfortunately, my yard is kinda small so it doesnt allow for much moving around. It was suggested above, by Lee, to have my Throttle Curve at 0, 60, 80, 80, 80. This may just be my inexperience talking, but going from 0 to 60 seemed a bit big, so I went 0, 45, 80, 80, 80. I changed my Pitch Curve to 45, 47.5, 50, 75, 100. My Swash Mix was at +70, -70, 46. I changed those settings to +60, -60, +60. I started with a VERY slow and gradual spool up and at 50% stick my 500 was nice and light on it's skids...53-60% was a very nice and controlled hover. I popped the stick to 100% then back down to a bit more than 50% and my 500 jumped to life with a very encouraging blade whipping sound, a couple of slow piro's followed by a couple of faster piro's then hit the throttle hold for a super soft auto from about 25 feet in the air. It was a thing of beauty...poetry in motion. I have to say that my 500 behaves even better now than it did before my nephew made changes. I am happy once again.

Now, I don't have a pitch gauge, but immediately after i get done with this post, I will go get one. The hobby shop is only about 15 minutes away (depending on how many red lights interfere with my day, lol). When I get back with a pitch gauge, I would surely be interested in learning how to check and adjust the pitch. I am definately a tinker-er and I like working on my own stuff (except for my SUV's....auto-mechanix is just not for me, lol).

Thanks again Tony, Lee, wolfman76 for your help! I was really "outta sorts" not being able to take my 500 out. Like I said above...my nephew will just have to stick with his Nintendo DS, lol.

(heading out for a pitch gauge now)

 

[Tony]

I don't suggest leaving the throttle curve that flat. However if it's working for you, that is all that matters. The fires around here have fired up again so I may not be on much today. That and the wifes car decided to break the AC bracket so I have to hunt one of those down now...

 

[Derek]

ok, now i'm curious...above..Lee suggested setting my Throttle Curve to 0,60,80,80,80....i set it to 0,45,80,80,80. And you are saying that you don't suggest leaving the Throttle Curve that flat. Why is that? I don't know what is better nor worse.

 

[Tony]

I have just never liked having a throttle curve that jumped up to 80 at mid stick. That is a lot of rpm for someone that is just starting out. But as I said, that is just me. If this works for you, great.

 

[Derek]

Here's another curious question....I've heard a few people on YouTube say that they always fly in Idle Up/Stunt Mode. Even when they are just sport flying, no 3D. Why would that be? I've never hit the Idle Up/Stunt Mode switch. I have to say that I'm a bit intimidated. If I were to hit that switch...what could I expect? Higher RPM's, I'm sure, but with the blades spinning even faster, would the heli be more stable? I can imagine that the cyclic controls would be more sensative.

 

[Tony]

Honestly if you use the throttle curve that Lee suggested, you are pretty much flying in idle up speeds. However you will not have as much negative pitch. And yes, the heli is more stable when the head is spinning faster. Think of it as a gyro effect.

 

[Derek]

ahhh, I see. I surely don't feel comfortable enough to be flying inverted, as of yet, so there is no need for the negative pitch anyway.

I was just thinking...for the past week or so, up to yesterday, I couldn't get my 500 off the ground. Then, after a few thread posts and chatting with you guys...my 500 is back in the air and I have more of an understanding of more of the settings. All of that was much more than I was getting from my local hobby shop. I did get a Pitch Gauge yesterday. I bought the $26 Align Pitch Gauge. There were two others available at the hobby shop, but they didn't look to have the quality as the Align. I'll be going back over your videos, Tony, and I surely appreciate everyones help.

 

[murankar]

Learning this stuff can be difficult depending on the teacher. With the knowledge base here you can start not knowing a thing and be flying in no time. Same with the other vehicles.

The folks here got a "new be " from nothing to a flying nitro heli. It took some mentoring but it got built and setup.

Tony and his "family" got me from a 120sr to a 450 in three months. It took some time to get the initial parts, but hey it flies and smooth I might add.

 

[Derek]

That really is awesome, murankar! and i believe that you are right about this forum. I've been to several other forums in regards to my issues with my Trex 500 and DX6i...only to be ignored and forgotten. I came across Tony's videos on Youtube, sent him a message the other day and he suggested that I check out this forum for help. I registered just the other day and got my heli flying yesterday and it seems to be even better than before. I am glad because I wasn't fond of having a $700 paper weight. I will surely continue to revisit this forum for and long time to come and I'll recommend it when I can.

 

[Lee]

Having your throttle curve set to 80% above mid stick means that when you flip that ominous Stunt/ID1 switch its not such a jump in rpms that you end up needing to change your pants
Make sure that your pitch curve in Norm and Stunt/ID1 is the same above mid stick 50,75,100 so the heli doesn't suddenly change pitch when switching from one to the other.
If the jump to 80% is too much then as you did, drop it down a touch to your liking, say 0,45,60,80,80. Having a flatter mid to high stick means that only the pitch is changing and not the throttle at the same time. This greatly reduces that bobbing up and down that a lot of beginners suffer from.

 

[Derek]

ahhh, yes, the bobbing up and down is what i'm dealing with now. It's a constant struggle. I people, with their heli's, simply spool it up, hop off the ground, and they are just hovering in one spot. I have the up's and downs and some lefts and rights and some forwards and backwards....all at the same time. It's so nerve-racking that I have to set it down. I try to adjust my trims, one at a time and in small incriments. It just makes me curious if my servo linkages are where they are suppose to be. I'm looking around for a swashplate leveling tool. Being as simple as they are, I may just make one. I have access to a nice lathe and mill.

 

[murankar]

That takes time to learn. Collective management take a while. I am still learning that myself.

Hovering is the most difficult thing to learn. It takes a lot of corrective stick inputs. You need to predict what the heli is going to do as it flies.
Use the rc-help flight school to learn some training techniques. Also ircha has a training booklet that goes into some detail on how to learn. I have printed it and will start it after my move.

Lastly keep flying as much as you can. Sim or no sim, you will learn it.

 

[Tony]

with the cyclic, think of the helicopter on a clean pane of glass. Every action you tell the helicopter to do, you have to counter that action to stop the movement. Over correct and it will go the other way. As stated, you have to anticipate what the heli is going to do. When you take off, you know it will go to the left so you can be ready for some right cyclic once the heli starts to get light on the skids. If you go with a 3 axis, you will want to wait until after it leaves the ground.

Collective management is quite hard to control. If you have a ratchet feel on your Tx, reverse the metal tab in the Tx so it's smooth. There should be NO sticking or ratchet when you are flying helicopters. It should be pretty light to move with little effort. If you have a sticky or ratchet collective, you will be fighting the transmitter every time you are in the air.

As for my how to fly series, I created this from all of the different ones that were out at the time. I hate to say it but those were scripted and it shows and is a reason I don't do scripts. but the steps work and it's how I learned how to fly. Give it a shot and let me know what you think.

 

[Derek]

ok, that all makes sense, too. Thanks Tony. Just so it's stated, my throttle stick is not ratchety nor sticky. It's very smooth and I'm sure that my troubles for the next few weeks will simply come from the pilot. Oh crap! that's me. I will surely work on flying my heli more. Unfortunately, I've also picked up flying scratch build planes and I absolutely love it. I'll have to learn to manage my time.

As I've said before....thanks to everyone for the help. I've learned quite a bit just from this forum. I will probably be dropping the other two forums that I use to visit quite regularly with little to no "positive" end result.

 

[Tony]

Well thank you, hope to see you around here more and more in the future. I know I'm not on here during the day, but I try to get on here at night when I'm at work to answer any questions that has not been answered.