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Batteries Potential Changes That Are Coming In Battery Technology

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by rdsok, Nov 10, 2019.

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  1. rdsok

    rdsok Well-Known Member

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    I posted this privately to Tony originally... then I thought it may interest others here as well. None of this is a certainty yet although a couple are pretty likely from how they are talked about. I suspect that in just a few to maybe five years at most, something here will likely replace our current lithium ion batteries we are now using....


    One area you may see something in relatively soon are batteries. The current type of lithium ion batteries probably won't be around much longer. Tesla ( the car company, not the scientist lol )... acquired two companies that has battery tech, one was Maxwell that also produces super capacitors ( pretty cool in itself ) and HiBar. They've also partnered with universities to help discover newer battery tech.

    Maxwell has a process to create what they refer to as dry cell electrodes. This would replace the slurry mix they currently have to make and then dry in ovens and creates the electrodes with a dry method eliminating some steps... which would decrease the amount of the manufacturing space needed for those steps by 16 times which would give more space for other production steps. It's also said to increase the storage density by 20% currently with them thinking 50% may be possible. This can go a couple of ways, decrease the weight of the batteries ... or increase their capacity and both would increase the range of vehicles.

    I suspect you know a bit about super capacitors ( aka ultra capacitors ) but just to cover them briefly... They are just like regular caps but can retain a charge for much longer and in greater capacities. Their advantage over batteries themselves is being about to be very quickly charged or discharged. Used in combination with batteries, they could be used to buffer a charge or discharge. Imagine being about too quickly charge up the caps enough for a 30, 70 mile charge or more in mere seconds. During regen braking, they could take the charge in and then slowly recharge the batteries or hold it for direct use by the motor if needed. This would greatly reduce the wear on the batteries.

    I don't currently know much about the Hibar technology that Tesla gets. I do know they ( Hibar ) has IP for battery casing and assembly techniques. If nothing else, this may reduce the amount of IP that Tesla may need to license from the other battery companies like Panasonic, LG and others.

    They are also in partnership with several universities to develop new battery tech. One of these, Illinois, just recently announced they have been able to create a mono-crystalline battery. While they didn't say this was a solid state battery or not... it's believed by many that it is. If so, this will also make the batteries smaller and lighter. By going to solid state ( or a hybrid of it perhaps ), it also would eliminate the liquid electrolyte that is so flammable currently and address that safety issue.

    Tesla has also announced a set of batteries that would allow enough recharges to reach a million miles. This alone is a huge thing. Imagine a set of batteries that would be likely to outlive your car by 4 times ( at 250,000 miles seen on some IC cars currently ). Currently, Tesla is getting about 2000-3000 recharge cycles with each charge having between 230 to 330 miles range.

    Another related one... is carbon dioxide batteries. These would have 7x the capacity of currently lith-ion technology but originally they could only get about 10-20 charges out of them. Recent research has now gotten them to about 500 recharge cycles.


    The battery tech that the Illinois University has come up with... was released by Tesla to the public domain. Elon could have easily kept that IP secret for a competitive advantage over the other EV car companies... yet he didn't, thinking it would help drive the industry more and probably end up helping himself ( aka Tesla ) in the long run.
     


  2. Tony

    Tony Administrator Staff Member

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    If any of this actually makes it into large scale production, I think this could be great for the hobby. Definitely interested to see what comes of all of this.
     
  3. Admiral

    Admiral Well-Known Member

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    This popped up on local local Helicopter FB Group

     
  4. rdsok

    rdsok Well-Known Member

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    I sort of had to chuckle at what the scientist said about wanting to make carbon dioxide useful... I'm certain ( or hopeful ) that he misspoke since life on this planet isn't possible without CO2 ... trees and plants for instance use it and transform it into oxygen as just one example. In addition it is also used in a lot of other processes for manufacturing as well and numerous other things that we do with it.

    Ultimately, what the goal is ... is to be carbon neutral in our manufacturing and society in order to not upset the natural carbon balance of the planet.
     
  5. Smoggie

    Smoggie Well-Known Member

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    New battery tech will arrive eventually that’s for sure, there is a load of cash being poured into research. Personally I think it will be a lot longer than 5 years before we see anything revolutionary trickle down to RC modelling applications but I hope I’m wrong
     
  6. rdsok

    rdsok Well-Known Member

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    The "up to 5 years" that I guessed about... was for the general market and not specific to RC itself. Additional changes would be required to include RC or anything beyond the initial release of whichever technology comes out ... ie accommodate for voltage, amperage and wattage differences etc. Tesla seemed to imply the "million mile" battery was already ready for use, of course that could just be marketing. They also didn't say what type of technology the "million mile" battery is, so they could be incorporating something from what I listed or it could simply be a tweaked up version of the current technology. I guess we won't really know until they actually say it's available in one of their products.
     
  7. Mikker

    Mikker Member

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    7x is something to look forward to.
     
  8. Fly-n-Low

    Fly-n-Low Member

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    Wow, that will be great when then figure it out. Tesla is okay, but have you seen a Rivian? They make an all wheel drive truck and an SUV. 400 mile range they claim. And they look amazing when many initiative ideas for storage. Amazon and Ford are investing in them as well. I like my old oil burner, but I would like to give one of these a try. https://rivian.com/r1t/

    When they perfect those new batteries many things will be changing!
     
  9. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    All this talk of electric cars is getting old to me. All I see is a huge carbon footprint. All we are doing is trading one for another. It takes an electric plant to charge your car which is polluting the air. Nuclear is about to go away, at least in my area. We have a plant in Perry Ohio that supplies electric to a different state. That plant is slated to be shutdown.

    Next is battery disposal. Yes batteries are getting more landfill friendly but we are not there yet. We still have materials that dont biodegrade back to the earth. Next is the recycling, which I agree with. Most batteries today can be recycled.

    Finally tag re newal. Yes renewing tags. In ohio we charged an additional $150 for hybrid or $200 for full electric annually. We are being punished for doing eco friendly. I seriously dont understand it.
     
    Fly-n-Low likes this.
  10. Fly-n-Low

    Fly-n-Low Member

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    I know. I have fought the idea for a while. Especially since they are not well suited for the cold. The colder the temp, the slower or no reaction. And then there are the strip mines for lithium, etc, etc.

    Yea, they say wind, solar, etc. But the carbon foot print to establish those are huge. I can see the steam plume from the local nuke plant from my house. :chuncky:

    I have a bag full of bats I need to send in.

    They charge a highway tax on our fuel per gallon that supposedly pays for our roads (Louisiana roads... :waa:). So I can see that.

    Like I say, they are getting closer. The Rivian 4X4 pick up that is a decent looker (not like that cyborg thing of Musk's) and is engineered well and so well thought out.
     
  11. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    We shall see how this plays out. Energy storage is a huge problem. It's a tough riddle to solve.
     
  12. rdsok

    rdsok Well-Known Member

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    First... carbon doesn't change the environment.... it is the result of the environment changing. All past data shows as the temp increases, results in the carbon increasing after the temp increase and the reverse happens after a cooling. Said another way... when temps go up, the oceans warm up which in result releases carbon into the air. The data is taken from the various ice cores that are drilled in places like Greenland and other glacier areas are proof of that.

    Having said that... we still need to address the issues we cause with our pollution we create. It's just the talk about carbon footprint is a red herring. We ( I mean the scientists that actually do study this ) really don't know what causes changes to the environment and because of that, we should be careful to not add to the many causes due to our own ignorance.
     
  13. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    That's my stance also. Midagte what we can.
     
  14. Fly-n-Low

    Fly-n-Low Member

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    I understand that. I was using the carbon foot print as a comparison. Resources to change our power grid will be immense. And some so called enviro-friendly power generators aren't so friendly. Some stop fish migration and others kill birds.

    We (in North America) aren't really the big problem. Everyone seems to forget about China and India.

    I live in a very windy area at times. Having a back ground in composites (I am retired also) I am thinking about building some wind generators. I have different ideas for energy storage though. And it is not batteries.
     
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