450 pitch setting for belt cp v2 with DX6i

[taizi]

hi guys, just a quick one

i recently got a belt cp v2 which does fly well (and heres the "but) ive put my DX6i into it and im almost there with the setup , i started with the setup i had with the stock TX but with a slight increase in pitch, and it didnt lift off at all, so i moved the pitch up again and got off the floor at nearly full throttle, so again i increased the pitch so i am now at 62,74,88,96,100, and this worked better and it was fairly ok , but on the bench i have next to no negative pitch and not a great deal of positive either

so what im really asking is, is the pitch now too high and how can i get more negative/positive because ive gone through the basic setup points 0 pitc mid stick in idleup and moved the swash up and down manually and through the TX but it doesnt look to be doing much

anyone had one of these beasties and found a good setup

thanks in advance
paul

 

[murankar]

Unplug your motor first.
1) you need to put the radio into Idle Up
2) Put collective (left stick for mode 2) at mid stick. Blades should be at 0 degrees pitch.
3) Next put the collective to full throttle and you should be at 10 - 11 degrees pitch.
4) Check for negative pitch by lowering the collective all the way down. Should be the same as the positive. If not adjust the linkages to the swash one turn at a time till the pitch is the same for both positive and negative.

Once that is set up then it time to finish setting up the radio if you have not done so yet.

If you need more assistance let us know. Tony has an Hour long build of the exi 450 tt edition and in there he explains how to adjust the swash linkages. It's some where around the 45 minute mark.

 

[Lee]

Did you get the servos set to 90º using the sub trim menu before setting up your pitch range ?

 

[taizi]

thanks for the reply guys

yes i had the servo arms at 90% and 0 pitch at half stick, which is what i couldnt understand , but i did set the radio up first so maybe this is the problem, i was getting about 5% of pitch in neg and pos
i will go through the whole lot again and set the radio last , i have also set dual rate /expo, so i wil reset the TX and add these after ive got the right pitch

im still learning about the pitch curve part of the radio so do you think that if i have 62% in position 1 it could affect the amount of overall pitch i can get out of the blades?, i had to set at least that much for the bird to lift off, because i tried 30% before that and it span the motor up to full and just sat there screaming lol

 

[Tony]

okay I think I can chime in on this one. First off, set your pitch curves to (Normal = 45 47.5 50 75 100) (Idle Up = 0 25 50 75 100). This will put mid stick at 50% no matter what, but you still want to be in either idle up, or throttle hold, or both. Make sure to unplug your motor. Oh yeah, make sure your throttle hold pitch settings are that of idle up in being linear.

Once you have your Tx setup, put it at mid stick with T-Hold on and set the Tx aside. Look at the heli, your servo arms should be 90º to the LINKS. If they are not, use sub trim to get them to 90º. Once they are set, DO NOT ADJUST THE TRIM OR SUBTRIM for the rest of the setup.

Now check for 0º pitch with the Tx at mid stick. If you are not there, adjust the links, don't use subtrim. Once you are done with mid stick to go full positive. You must have a pitch gauge to do this! If you don't have one, stop what you are doing and go get one. You want 10º of pitch both positive and negative. If you have more positive than negative, then your swash is too high. Use the links to lower it, then use the blade grip links to get back to 0º pitch at mid stick. Then recheck your positive and negative pitch. If you have more negative than positive, then your swash is too low. Just follow the instruction above but in reverse to raise the swash.

If you can't get to 10º of pitch, go into your swash mix menu and raise the Pitch settings. If you are at 60, to go 70 or whatever to get to 10º. If you are at -60, then you will have to go to -70 (sounds backwards since -70 is lower than -60 lol).

Let me know if this helps. We will get that heli in the air!

 

[taizi]

thanks tony, sounds like i was on the right line but was doing it backwards, looks like i will be busy tonight, ive heard these belts are a bugger to get right,
will let you know when i get it sorted

 

[Tony]

Just make sure to set your pitch curve to what I have above and leave it there. If you need MORE pitch, use the swash mix but with that heli, don't go over 10º. And if you can't figure something out, set it aside for a day or a weekend and come back to it. We are not going anywhere as you know, and you will be able to fine the issues with a fresh mind. What I like to do is if I get pissed at a plane or heli (it happens, even to me lmao) I will work or fly something else, forget about the issues and come back the next day, or week. Hell I have left one for over three months before. And when you come back, you are rested and usually figure it out in just a few minutes. We will get you there bro.

DON'T FORGET THE PITCH GAUGE!

 

[taizi]

no worries , i have my cp3 to fly in the meantime, well i say fly its more just luck if it does what i want it o because of that infernal 3-1, blooming esky electronics hehehehe, still its great for practicing and has done ok so far

i have a pitch gauge aswell , got it a few months ago, and was doing by eye up till then and when i did put it on the birds few months back i found i was pretty much on target but as the old addage says "the right tool for the right job"

thanks Tony, i will follow your advice to the letter and should be in the air on the weekend

paul

 

[taizi]

Tony your a star

i did as you said night before last and checked everything twice and had the bird in the air, while checking the settings, the only thing is the bird lifts when the throttle is past 3/4 stick, so did a recheck on all the settings last night and added abit to the pitch curve on the radio but havent tried it out yet, although the swash seems to be moving abit more fluid, was this the right thing to do or should i stick to the pitch you gave me, im assuming the higher the pitch setting the more pitch is added to the blades

the main thing is that its flying so a very big thankyou to you sir

paul

 

[Tony]

Most helis will not lift off the ground until 3/4 throttle with that pitch setting. If you have 0º at mid stick, and you have a total of 10º at full pitch, then at 3/4 you are only at 5º of pitch.

You could run a pitch setting of something like 45 47.5 60 85 100. This will still give you a little negative pitch at low stick to keep the heli stuck to the ground when spooling up or down but give you more positive pitch at mid stick and up. Should get you in the air at about 55% throttle. If you do this, raise your throttle curve for normal ONLY to 0 45 60 85 85. You can put that last number to 100, but 85 will be a little more stable IMO.

Make sure idle up is still 0 25 50 75 100 on the pitch and 100 95 90 95 100 on throttle. Same pitch with T-Hold but with 0 0 0 0 0 throttle curve. And remember to adjust your pitch settings in T-Hold and NOT in Normal.

 

[taizi]

thats great Tony , thanks
think im finally getting my head around how the pitch works, im sure now that i have the head set as it should be just have to check for blade alignment when i spool up next

next thing to do once ive got this working is to change the awful main gear and esc

really appreciate the help, thankyou
paul

 

[taizi]

hi
just an update, ive got the heli flying pretty well, it just needs abit of left trim and the blades tracked properly

i have 0 pitch at half stick in idleup/ throttle hold and 10 degrees pos and neg , as i said in my last post i had moved the pitch curve up abit from what you said Tony to 50,60,66,85,100, but i cant change it at the moment because the roller button on the dx has packed up and wont let me select anything (i will try opening it up and seeing what i can do and try to change the settings again to what you have suggested), but saying that it felt ok and lifted at around 3/4 stick, but also landed really soft

the blades are out of track by a click or so, will check the balance first as they are the wooden blades , and i havent checked them after they tapped the floor last time out (ooooooooops), i will have some new bright yellow carbon blades on the way soon along with a proper 35A ESC and maybe a better gyro

Lee suggested a 35A hobbywing esc which ive found very cheap and was thinking about a Futaba GY401 gyro, i also want to change the main gear because it sounds dreadful and wobbles due to the cheap plastic moulding, so would you guys know if a trex450 gear will drop in its place

 

[Lee]

The roller button should only be pressed close to the top, as that is where the clicker is. Pushing at the bottom puts too much stress on the roller and the spindle breaks. You can replace them with a 3rd party metal roller http://www.eastrc.org/estorerollerbutton.htm

 

[Tony]

You need to lower that first number down below 50 to something like 45. Otherwise you will still have positive pitch on the blades when you land and if you have a gust of wind go over the heli, even slight, it will cause what's called translational lift and the heli will flip over. You need that negative pitch as I stated above.

Roller, what Lee said...

Gyro, don't waste your money on that gyro. It's a piezoelectric gyro and sucks compared to todays gyro's. Get the Align GP780 or GP790, even a quark is better than the futaba and they are all MEMS gyros that are not sensitive to temp changes.

 

[taizi]

excellent thanks lee

i have been tying to find somewhere that does replacements for the buttons and was unable so far , and spectrum and horizon wanted me to send them the radio which would be dodgy especially with the Chinese postal system (they have already lost an expensive order i had sent from the UK)
I had watched Tonys video on the dx6i before i got it, but i guess something went wrong with it

i have sent an email to eastrc and hopefully will get a reply

- - - Updated - - -

ok will change the pitch as soon as the button works, and reset to what you have stated

thanks for the advice on the gyros aswell as i bought a kds820 awhile ago and its crap compared to the esky one i have fitted as standard on the cp, but you live and learn
i will need something that doesnt get affected by temp changes as the weather out here goes up and down all the time

i really appreciate the help you guys have given me as im sure i would have crashed alot by now with my trail and error approach, i just hope i can repay the kindness one day

thankyou

paul

 

[Tony]

No need to repay anything bro, this is what we are here for. And as for the piezoelectric gyros being sensitive, you can go from inside to outside and they would be unstable. Something as little as 5-10ºF would cause them to not work properly. MEMS will work no matter what, and I have had great luck with the 780/790. And you can find them used from people that are going flybarless all over the place for cheap.

Watch my very first video on DX6i Customization on my channel to see how to take the Tx apart. Look at the roller button from the inside after you unscrew it from the case. I'm sure you will either see a screw pushed out or a roller broken. If it's broke, you may be able to use a slight amount of epoxy to fix it. Don't use CA as it's not strong enough.

 

[Lee]

If you still need a gyro, I still have these for sale.
For Sale: GT9 Mems Gyro

 

[taizi]

thats the video ive been looking for, but my dahm proxy server wont hook up and if it does its for about 30 seconds , i can however remember what i saw the last time i watched it, but have been to scared to open the tx up incase i damage something

i will give it a look and take note of what i do, and not touch or pull on anything i dont understand, im not great with electronics but im good at taking things apart and putting them back the same way

and the cp is flying real good now, ive got it set right other than abit of trim, but saying that the weather has turned and its typhooning outside right now, so will wait till its not blowing and fine tune then

as for the gyro i will check them out because i do notice a little kick now and then from the stock one, problem at the moment is money because i started a new job this month as a kindagarden teacher and havent been paid for 3 months, so gotta penny watch for abit and try and sweetalk the wife lol

and i love that work stand you have on the website Lee,