General Nitro questions

stokke

Well-Known Member
I'm considering a nitro bird. But as I'm reading up on the subject, it dawns on me: Nitro is not as easy as Electric!

So to all you nitro people:

What is a push glow?
What's an automatic glow starter?
What's a header tank, and why is it different than the fuel tank?

The governing seems much more complicated than on Electric. Is a separate unit required, or can the FBL system govern the motor?

Say I have the bird, blades, servos, FBL unit and Rx battery - what else is needed?

Educate me!
 

breeze400

Spagetti Pilot
I'm considering a nitro bird. But as I'm reading up on the subject, it dawns on me: Nitro is not as easy as Electric!

So to all you nitro people:

What is a push glow?
What's an automatic glow starter?
What's a header tank, and why is it different than the fuel tank?

The governing seems much more complicated than on Electric. Is a separate unit required, or can the FBL system govern the motor?

Say I have the bird, blades, servos, FBL unit and Rx battery - what else is needed?

Educate me!

Marius, a push glow is an on board glo plug ignighter. That is what I have on my bird. When you get ready to start the motor you push a button and light up the glow plug. Then start the motor. Mine is what they call a 2 in 1 system. It is the bec on one end and the push and glow on the other. You hook the battery up to it and one output is the bec power for the RX and FBL unit the other output is the push and glow.

A auto glow I'm thinking is just that when you start the motor, the glow plug auto lights. Also an on board system.

The header tank is a small tank off to the side of the main tank. If you look at Tony's bird he has a header tank on it. My bird has no header tank on mine. Just more fuel capassity.

The gov on a nitro is just a sensor placed somewhere on either the clutch bell, mine is there. Or you can also use a crank senser mounted on the back plate of the motor. I am using the built in gov in my ikon unit. Very easy to set up. If you go with a conventional RX gyro set up then you use the gov menu in your tx.

Most birds will come with everything if you purchase a super combo unit. Then all you need is a motor and muffler. If your buying a stripped down model then you have to get everything for it. Has far has a glow ignighter you can opt for a hand held ignighter that's the same as what you would use for a nitro plane. It just is not has convenient as an on board system!
 
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stokke

Well-Known Member
So the auto glow will glow the glow plug automatically when you run the starter? Only thing needed is power to the system?

So with your IKON unit, do you have some separate unit hooked up that works as a governor unit? What i mean is, there's a thingy that is between the sensor and the IKON?

Wait... Do you also need a thingy that reads from the flywheel? In that case the order would be like this: Small thingy glued on the flywheel, thingy mounted above (?) the flywheel that reads from the flywheel, thingy that receives that signal and at last the IKON?

Haha. Sorry for the missing terminology :D

Thanks Sam!

btw. I'm looking at the Gaui NX4 with kit, motor and muffler.
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
sam answered most all questions.. But just to answer them one more time.. the Nitro helis have a bit more going on in them than an electric. They are totally different monster. When I started into nitro helicopters I had never EVER touched a nitro or fuel powered engine before. so its not impossible to learn lol. If I can learn it anyone can :)

Push glow / Align 2in1 / switch glow are just differetn on board Glow plug igniters. The nitro engine needs the glow plug to be ignited once during startup and after that, the nitro 2 stroke engine is a self contained system that if supplied fuel through a carb will not need any external electrical or mechanical pulses and will keep running. So these glow igniters give like 5v (i think) to the glow plug, making it hot and when you crank the engine over with the starter, the engine starts, and the glow igniters automatically turn off after a few seconds.. The engine is on its own from there on out.

Switch glow--> you can ignite the glow plug from a channel on your TX.. the push glow or align 2in 1 have a button on board that you press and it tells you either through sound or light thats its igniting the glow plug for you .. go ahead and opent he fuel line and crank the engine over.

As far as governor. Is it harder to setup that electric .. nO.. its the same. Esp with systems like IKON its actually extremely easy. Just like an electric. Like electric motor would need a phase sensor for sensing the rpm, the nitro bird needs a magnetic / hall effect sensor. I recommend to anyone .. use a backplate sensor.. spektrum makes it.. its much easier to setup and just counts how many times the crank in the engine is turning. Then just go in the governor and set up your rpm of what you want and DONE. If you go with some old school ones, then you end up, like electric birds, tach the head speed to set the exact head speed you want from throttle percentages. But why go tehre when you have systems like Multigov pro which i was using since last 1.5 years or now IKON with inbuilt governor system .


Header tank ... Sam's engine is a regulated engine.. it diesnt see a difference. My engine and tony's engine are both simple carborated engines, working on muffler exhaust pressure creating pressure in the main fuel tank to push fuel into the carb making it a closed looop system . The emptier the tank , as you can imagine, the less pressure is gonne be exherted on the fuel thats in the tank.. sO engine tends to come down a bit hot towards the end of tank .

So Header tank is tehre not for more fuel capacity AT ALL! its there for making sure that the carb of the engine is always looking at a psuedo full tank .. (eety beety one) but its full and the main tank could be all the way empty.. helps the engine to not lean out towards the end of flight. People debate over how affective it is... I use it.. It is good :) .. is it NEEDED.. Nope.. you can do without it just fine. just keep the engine a click richer than power edge.

There will be a leanring curve in engines too .. just be aware of that :) and thats it :) >. for me it was a challenge and I LOVE CHALLENGES.. tuning the engine is the hardest part of the whole nitro thing. But once tuned.. you really dont touch it.. almost at all.. till there is adrastic change in weather.. even then.. one click here or there.

you say you have servos.. add to that a Throttle servo .. its supposed to be as fast as the cyclic servos atleast.. or faster.. I use a tail servo on it.

You will need an onboard igniter .. to make your life easier ..

You will need an engine appropriate size for that bird.. 600 size birds fly (OS 50HZ, 55HZ, 55 HZ-r, YS60, Redline 55..), 700 size birds fly (OS 91HZ, OS 91 HZ-R, OS 105 HZ-R, YS120.. ) ..

You will need a muffler tuned for that engine.. Depending on the engine you choose, I would recommedn to go with the right muffler. Like OS55HZ performs THE BEST with OS power boost2 or funtech (same thing) pipe.. OS 50 performs best with Curtis Youngblood MP 5-50.. YS120 performs best with HITORI pipes..

Then you need fuel lines.

A starter. HIGHLY recommend Align starter. I wasted more money on other starters which were half the price, but burnt up.. and bought three before realizing I could have just got the RIGHT thing lmao. :D

You will need fuel.. depending on the engine.. 50 or 55 size or even 91 engines fly 30 percent nitro. ys 120, OS 105 fly 15percent nitro i think .. so just one of the two ..


Now what FBL you have ? if that FBL doesnt have Governor. .then I recommend Multigov Pro governor. all the headaches of taching the headspeed are eliminated. and with it a sensor.. (recommend Spektrum Backplate sensor)

A fuel pump.. hand cranked will cost like 8-10 bucks.. (US)
And I think thats it. :)
 
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coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
NX4 is an awesome bird.. It is SO economical on fuel .. flies like 20 flights on a gallon 10 minutes each and makes GREAT power. Light and well made.

IKON will only need a spektrum backplate sensor to go with it, and thats it.. it has internal governor. I flew my Ikon governor on my nitro bird. DOES AMAZING! :D

If you have the ikon .. nothing esle is required.. but the sensor and sattelites.

Anything esle.. without inbuilt gov, you'll need another electronic peice like multigov like I said in teh post above to do the Gov job. :)
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
NX4 is an awesome bird.. It is SO economical on fuel .. flies like 20 flights on a gallon 10 minutes each and makes GREAT power. Light and well made.

IKON will only need a spektrum backplate sensor to go with it, and thats it.. it has internal governor. I flew my Ikon governor on my nitro bird. DOES AMAZING! :D

If you have the ikon .. nothing esle is required.. but the sensor and sattelites.

Anything esle.. without inbuilt gov, you'll need another electronic peice like multigov like I said in teh post above to do the Gov job. :)

Thanks Gaba, for that elaborate explanation!

- - - Updated - - -

That backplate sensor, any link to that?
Also, will it fit on any motor?
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
I'm reading the instructions for the GAUI... The two magnets that's being mentioned will not be needed with the Spektrum backplate thingy?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the Spektrum backplate thingy - it's mounted on the motor itself?
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
I'm reading the instructions for the GAUI... The two magnets that's being mentioned will not be needed with the Spektrum backplate thingy?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the Spektrum backplate thingy - it's mounted on the motor itself?

Correct .. You won't need those magnets

And yes that mounts right on the backplate with backplate 's screws :)

Fly safe!! :) have fun!
 

Tony

Staff member
Yup, the backplate sensor will mount to two of the bolts on the back plate of the engine. It reads the steel crank pin each time it passes. Might take a bit to get it just the right distance away from the crank pin, but works great.

I had a header tank on the 600, but will not be putting it back on when I put it in the air. the reason I heard for them is the clunk in the main tank can and does get stuck sometimes and the header tank will always be in fuel. But, it's not required and none of the big pilots use them anymore.
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys :D

Will this starter work on the NX4? Would it also work on other sized nitro birds?

Also, it doesn't look like a fuel filter is included with the kit. Where do you buy these? And where are they placed on the fuel lines?
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
Thanks guys :D

Will this starter work on the NX4? Would it also work on other sized nitro birds?

Also, it doesn't look like a fuel filter is included with the kit. Where do you buy these? And where are they placed on the fuel lines?

That's the starter I use.

That will crank over anything upto a 91 easy (and 105 on a good day lol) so yes that's the only one you need

Fuel filters: align makes a three way. Get that, so you can fuel your tank through it too. Ill see if I can find a link. It'll be places between the tank and the carb of your engine. It's very good to have one.


Here

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product..._id/23196/n/Align-3-Way-Fuel-Filter-600N-700N


Fly safe!! :) have fun!
 
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coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
This is much easier to operate for fuel shutoff than what comes with align filter (that black plastic fuel shutoff thing)

Fuel Shutoff Clamps (2pcs) (EDN-1148) - HeliDirect -- Best Customer Services, Fast Shipping, Great

Paired with this I have to use a fuel dot to seal off the unused third way on that filter whn flying.

Great Planes Aluminum Fuel Line Plugs Dots (2) (GPMQ4166) - HeliDirect -- Best Customer Services,

These two replace that black align thing.. And I like these better than that align fuel shutoff clamp

Also .. Just letting you know never get sucked into buying lynx mother of suckers (LMOAS) fuel pick up clunks. Even of you don't know or care lol. They need taking care of

I do recommend as an upgrade to the stick clunks the "O.S bubble less clunk"

Not needed .. But good one to have. It sucks every last drop out if the engine before getting too many bubbles in the fuel line. I use it. :)

O.S Bubbleless Fuel Tank Clunk

Fly safe!! :) have fun!
 

Tony

Staff member
I was going by the last links you posted with the aluminum plug. The black plastic fuel shutoff and plug is just easier since you can't lose it lol.
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
There's something called a "NX4 Starter Shaft". Is this some kind of adapter that I would put on my Align starter?

Also, how do you stop the nitro engine after you land?
 

Tony

Staff member
If the image below is what you are talking about, that is your starter shaft that is in the helicopter. Your align starter shaft will go into this. It is mounted to the upper engine mount, clutch bell and goes down into the one way bearing in the engine clutch.

And to kill it, you will lower your trim tab until it closes the carb and kills the engine.

g313045.jpg

g313045.jpg
 
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