General New Findings on the Align 3GX 3.0 upgrade..

[coolgabsi]

Hey Everyone

As you all know my Align 3GX is 2.1 was flying ok. I wont say it was perfect or anything. It was far from. So I read a lot of posts with people saying they love the way 3GX 3.0 is flying, and that there has been amazing improvements over what used to be comparing it to the big guns Vbar and Beastx.. I waited for a bit and then decided to do an upgrade.

Ok.. so.. as soon as I installed it.. I noticed that 3GX had gone DOWNHILL.. Man the head would wobble like crazy.. higher the head speed.. worse it would get. I am using Align 3G blades.. I dont say they are the best as they flex a lot.. but still better than the cheapo bad ones I reduced the POT gains and it wont go down.. I was doing something wrong.. or 3GX had just gone crazy.. And then I noticed that going tail in, my tail would like to just check out and catch about exactly 180 degrees later. Nose in would become tail in and vice versa.. Man this was stressful flying. NEver crashed it on 3.0 as I caught it everytime, but I could recreate it.. It WAS NOT just sporadic.. So there was something MORE wrong..

I went ahead and contacted some people, and researched around.. and talked to an Align Rep apparently known for being the BOMB in 3GX.. lol .. so this is the checklist I got:

1) Make sure your gain pots on the 3GX are at Noon position before pushing out the upgrade. (I did NOT have that)

2) Make sure you install 3.0 and not just push 3.0 using 2.1 ( I had this right)

3) Once you install the 3.0 software REDO your DIR settings. Even if you have a 3GX that remembers your DIR after the upgrade. or If you reflash 3.0 it will remember the DIR settings, STILL REDO the DIR menu. (I had that right)

4) Then do your tail setup.. Follow the general instructions.. Make sure your limits, delays and directions are all good.

5) Make sure you do your Governor setup. REGARDLESS IF YOU ARE USING GOVERNOR OR NOT.. This is done to tell 3GX your TX throttle limits. Make sure while doing this your throttle curve is 0-50-100 or for some radios 0-25-50-75-100 and motor is disconnected.

6) Then connect the gyro to the PC software, and go to the menu where it says "Display settings" which show you the actual numerical value that the gain pots are set on at the noon position:

In this there are two options
a) Elevator Gain (The ELE pot on 3GX changes this value)
b) Aileron Sensitivity (ALE pot on 3GX changes this value)

Now here is where you wana set your gains.. AS PER THE ALIGN REPS... Gains here need to be between 100 & 120.. Below 100 means heli will be mushy.. TOO much ( 120+) and you might be looking at a tip over.. and if not that.. head shake... or heli fighting your inputs.

So at this point.. change your pots ELE and AILE to change these values to get them between 100 and 120.

My ELE at noon displayed value: 170 and AILE displayed : 135 ..

As soon as I changed th pot by a bit.. means taking ELE pot down to 11'o clock, the value dropped RAPIDLY! i was already at 125.. I got it down to 110..

Same for Aile pot.. AGAIN.. these pots are very sensitive . make sure you got yours set around 100 - 120..

NOTE: the pots will not be in the same position. They will not be similar looking anymore. Ignore that.. My ele is more like 10'o clock and AIle is 11'o clock but in the software the values are the same "110" ..

I HAD MISSED ALL THAT.

7) It has been tested BY THE PEOPLE IN GENERAL AND ALIGN REPS.. not me.. yet.. that adding a bit in the values of the following parameters helps a LOT on the tail ..

Collective ele precomp (Default is 50.. I have left mine there for the time being)
pitch torque precomp (Default is 50.. I have set mine to 65 now)
Anti torque comp (Default is 20.. I have set mine to 35 now)

not just the BIG helis.. but I am talking esp 450 size too.. What numbers I have written above are on my TREX 450 pro.. stock setup.

People as I have heard and esp align reps as I said have had great success with these parameters and have been advising everyone to do these changes.. and play with the above three parameters.


PLEASE NOTE FOR STEP 6&7 ..
My settings match what I have written here. I cannot say they are perfect YET.. But I was desperate to find a solution, and this came for a good source so I thought I would post and have some more people try it out with me.

Once all planets come in a straight line and all constellations align then I will probably get some time to fly. lol But until then.. take 6&7 with a grain of salt.. I will put a stamp of approval on these specific settings when I fly mine again and see a difference and it flies good.

PLEASE ALSO NOTE.. STEPS 1 through 5 are necessary MOP's.. Please follow that. That comes from Align itself.

Have a fun day

 

[Tony]

good info Gaba. I will try this if/when I get the 600 in the air.

 

[murankar]

sticky it if it works out. This is great info and I hope others try it and post up their values to share with other owners.

 

[coolgabsi]

Reflashed with 3.0.. pots were kept at center and then the gains and all were adjusted as suggested. here are the changed I made and left everything else 3.0 default

Collective precomp : 65
Collective Ele precomp :50
Anti Torque: 35

AIle POT: 110
ELE POT:110

Rudder Lock gain parameter: 60 (default)
Gyro Gain in TX : 65 (correspdonding value in software 26)

Flight 1:

Cyclic response is good

3GX 3.0 reflash Flight 1 with test parameters - YouTube

Flight 2:

Tail response under load is good.. Half piros are smooth:

3GX 3.0 reflash Flight 2 with test parameters - YouTube

Flight 3: Terror strikes on the tail under no load.

This flight is where I did tail slides twice and TWICE I lost my tail hold.. Not by 180 this time. But by i think 90 degrees .. Caught it both times. Once it got too far, but still got it back... New parameters test coming tommorow (i hope )

3GX 3.0 reflash Flight 3 with test parameters: Finally saw tail issue - YouTube




Now I know there needs to be more tuning. Alteast the Cyclic wobble is gone, and the heli is much much more stable in the air with the cyclic..

The tuning be more around the tail now.

- - - Updated - - -

Now the new Settings I am putting in

Aile pot: 105
ELE pot: 105


rest is all in screen shots. "in red"

 

[xokia]

When was this released?
I will eagerly watch this thread to see how things progress.

 

[coolgabsi]

3.0 was realeased a couple months ago


Ok... So tow more videos are uploading. Small description is below them. Will post here tomorrow morning

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[Tony]

I'm seeing the 4:43 on the third video now. Have not watched it again, but it's better than the 33 seconds that I was only able to see when I watched them before heading to work.

 

[BOKI]

Nice job explaining the 3gx gyro! The Best! Oh also nice videos!

 

[Graham Lawrie]

I would not know or feel confident about flashing the drive, but some of the symptoms you have mentioned with referance to the pots describe how my 450 was acting just after i built it. I have not connected mine to the programme as i was told you dont necessarily have to to get the heli set up? I have looked at videos of the 3gx set up on the pc and it was an older version wher you picked what model you had, which confused me as the latest one did not. Good thread and good points

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Gaba, Could you post pictures of all your 3GX settings like the other two so i could compare them to mine? I have not been through the set up before with my 450 plugged in. Maybe a good video in a different thread? thanks Graham

 

[coolgabsi]

Here are all re settings I got that worked and my heli was locked in like a train in 16mph wind yesterday...



















Using helical gears system on stock motor esc and ds410 servos ..


I did not post pot positions as they have been found to vary from heli to heli. For same values

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[xokia]

Have you got some more flight time on this curious as to how this is going and your thoughts so far?

 

[coolgabsi]

Have you checked out my videos on the movers videos section .. Yes I got like 10 batteries on it.


My readings... I got the tail resolved... Cyclic... I have seen it doesn't like too high head speed. My 100-90-100 throttle curve was making it go nuts. Lol ESP with my 45c packs

Now for now ... I have reduced that to 100-85-100 on idle up 2 and the heli is pretty stable.

My YouTube channel is coolgabsi ... So even just go there and see my latest uploads.


Also I have seen that the tail is very very touchy (/responsive) I have had to go higher expo like 35 percent on it...

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[xokia]

No I haven't seen your extra video's. I have been debating this upgrade. I have V2.0 but I dont have enough flight time on it to be able to say I could tell the difference. So really I'm just going to base the decision on your thoughts. On mine I lose the tail completely on pitch pumps if I'm not in idle up. Which is a little annoying I wouldnt expect it to lose the tail so easily. I'd expect it to move some but I'll get the tail to flip 180 on a pitch pump.

 

[coolgabsi]

Yeah I recommend this upgrade totally.


The only thing is you will probably need to mess with these settings a bit. But that isn't such a big deal to me at least. Follow the instructions in this thread that I posted...

And then... May be start off with what settings I have in this thread and we can go from there.

Mine doesn't loose tail control at any mode.. What servo are you using?

I have also done the flip grip mod on my 450 pro.. I recommend it personally to people, but you don't have to do it. It doesn't take anything extra just flipping your tail blade control geometry.

Why...? In zero position center on the tail output shaft.. 450 pro has no right torque built in the geometry of the tail. So if everything is 90deg on the tail, atleast with the stock design, the tail blades are at perfect 0. That is not the ideal case. It should have some right thrust on it .. That helped me a lot.

One more thing before you upgrade... When you go to rate mode, do you have to hold the ruffed right to make it hover? If so you need to add more right pitch on the tail blades by lengthening (i think) the tail push rod until it will hover without holding right rudder or minimum.. After that redo your end points on the right and left of the tail and try it again in Hh mode.. Do pitch pumps in normal mode and see if it helps.


After that do the flip grip mod and see if that helps

And after that 3.0

Just my opinion

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[xokia]

When you go to rate mode, do you have to hold the ruffed right to make it hover?

Tried to decipher this but failed. Ruffed?

Thanks for the tips I will try then. My tail holds fine other then doing pitch pump when not in idle up.

 

[coolgabsi]

Ohh I meant rudder. Stupid iPhone auto correct lol

Yeah those are things to try... I would definitely do the hover in rate mode and figure out the "zero" for your tail in no load condition... That should take care of flip grip and all too.

After that try the upgrade. I definitely like the way it flies.. Perfect lines.. Just still fighting a bit of cyclic wobble. But that might just be something with me lol

Fly safe!! have fun!

 

[xokia]

I have the same problem with my iPhone. Samsungs even worse, you can type a word exactly how you want it and it will come up with 6 completely different words. I've misspelled tons of things on this forum with my Samsung tab. I always end up having to go back and fix it. That's why I was happy when I got the ability to edit my posts.

 

[breeze400]

Spell check a wonderful thing?

 

[xokia]

Hey you have step 2 before step 6. This totally hoses up the gain settings.

I went through the DIR and then set the gain like the instructions say and gain was totally hosed it wouldn't even reach 100 even maxed out. The only way to fix it was to down grade back to 2.1 which blows away all settings. Then set the pots to 12 'oclock position. Then upgrade to 3.0 then set the gains to 105 then do the DIR setup

After doing it this way it has way more range. And you just barely need to move them off the 12' oclock position to get to 105. Which my 2.0 setup was near 12' oclock and closer to 100 just like now.

*edit* actually makes no difference once you go through DIR setup the gains drop drastically.
I think maybe the 3.0 upgrade was a bad idea.

*edit* found my mistake before doing DIR you need to set aileron and elevator to a linear rate 100% in the D/R settings

 

[coolgabsi]

That's a good thing you added there .. Ill add yhat to the thread. If you didn't have the throw you need to tell it it might have made it go confused


Thanks!! So you got it settled?

Fly safe!! have fun!