450 HK 450 build wont fly!!!!

[cantyman]

OK Guys...

here it is I just completed a new build of an HK 450 and followed Tony's instructional video on the DX6I CCPM setup.....to the letter....checking and double checking....but I cannot get it to lift off.....

my setup

DX6I, AR6100e, HK BLUE 65AMP ESC, HK401B GYRO, 4 HXT900 SERVO'S, 11.1 1800mah lipo, and the brushless motor brought over from a rogue 500.

Again I followed Tony's set up video to the letter...I mean I know I entered everything correctly...oe should I say I believe so....can i get some help here...I believe I have
everything correct...what coould I have missed? Any help would be appreciated.


Thanks in Advance guys.

 

[murankar]

Pitch curves, powr or head speed could cause this. Head speed could be due to lack of power from the battery, settings under throttle or motor pinion. Since you are running an 1800 mAh battery I would consider that first. Most 450 sized helis run on a 2200 mAh 30C (and up). There is not much room for the battery so the mAh of the battery is rather limited. One thing have you calibrated your ESC for your radio? This could cause you not to get full power out of the ESC.

post your settings as they are entered. sometimes things could get overlooked and letting someone else my catch something.

 

[Lee]

The more detail you can give, the easier we can help you. Show us a video of the heli spooling up. Show the setting in your radio. Anything you can show will help.
If its not lifting off.
Is the head spinning fast enough? If not the check Battery C rating. Check ESC calibration.
If it is spinning fast? Do the blades give you positive pitch above mid stick?
Video is the best tool for us to help out.
Good luck

 

[Tony]

Video would be best to help you out. Also, post your throttle and pitch curves. If you have not done so already, turn on your Tx, raise the throttle all the way up. Plug in the heli, wait for 2 beeps and lower the throttle. This will set the endpoints in the ESC so you get 0-100% throttle. If you don't have a pitch curve that is linear, make it linear so you get it setup correctly. waiting on the video or more information.

 

[cantyman]

hey thanks for the tips.....I just went thre the setting of the ESC but they are pretty limited because I have an ESC that is pretty much suppose to be plug and play. HK SS 50A , but it does allow for soft start and pole settings...what Ive done is set it for soft start and normal setting as far as the pole in the brushless motor go's because I dont know how many poles there are. After I did this I did get it to lift off ...but with alot of vibrations....I will look at that also and be sure that the blade grips arent to snug...you asked about my throttle and pitch curves:

THOTTLE CURVE

NORMAL MODE 0, 25, 50, 75, 100 LIN


PITCH CURVE

NORMAL MODE 45%, 47.5%, 50%, 75%, 100%

I BELIEVE THE PINION IS 13T BUT I WILL VERIIFY THIS......


I have stock plastic blades on this model ...I have used them on another and didnt have problems...by stock I mean the base black that are listed with the base HK 450....

As I said I just got it to lifet but with too much vibation, will check the balance of the blades again ....and recheck some of the things mentioned here ...and others ....again if Im missing something all help will be appeciated....

Thanks Again

- - - Updated - - -

hey thanks for the tips.....I just went thre the setting of the ESC but they are pretty limited because I have an ESC that is pretty much suppose to be plug and play. HK SS 50A , but it does allow for soft start and pole settings...what Ive done is set it for soft start and normal setting as far as the pole in the brushless motor go's because I dont know how many poles there are. After I did this I did get it to lift off ...but with alot of vibrations....I will look at that also and be sure that the blade grips arent to snug...you asked about my throttle and pitch curves:

THOTTLE CURVE

NORMAL MODE 0, 25, 50, 75, 100 LIN


PITCH CURVE

NORMAL MODE 45%, 47.5%, 50%, 75%, 100%

I BELIEVE THE PINION IS 13T BUT I WILL VERIIFY THIS......


I have stock plastic blades on this model ...I have used them on another and didnt have problems...by stock I mean the base black that are listed with the base HK 450....

As I said I just got it to lifet but with too much vibation, will check the balance of the blades again ....and recheck some of the things mentioned here ...and others ....again if Im missing something all help will be appeciated....

Thanks Again

Oh and that thanks go's to Marankur.....Lee.....and Tony.....

Hey guys its really appreciated

 

[Tony]

Hey, it's our pleasure. The vibration could be caused because you didn't have enough head speed to "sling" the blades out straight and they were not tracking correctly. Could also be that the blade grip links are not set correctly and the blades are not tracking correctly vertically. Could also be that the blades are out of balance. If you are running a flybar'd head, it could be that your flybar paddles are not perfectly centered or your weights are not centered. This could also be caused by a bent main shaft (I have seen them bent from the factory) as well as a feathering shaft.

And you are correct, your throttle and pitch curves are exactly that in which I have on the videos. It's a great starting point and once you get a feel for the heli, play around with them and make them your own. Same with DR/Expo.

As for poll's, you did the correct thing when putting it in the normal category. There are so many different motors and ESC's that people are putting together that it's getting hard from one to the other. I do suggest that you do the end point adjustment that I stated above if you have not done so. I know it may not be in the manual, but it will work for your ESC. It works for all ESC's IIRC.

If there is anything else, just let us know.

 

[Lee]

You're very welcome.
Tony cover everything above. As he said recalibrate the ESC to make sure you're getting all the power.
Again if you can, throw up a video of the heli spooling up. That will give us a much better feel for things.

 

[cantyman]

Hey Lee thanks for the feed back....All help is welcome.....and as for the video I will be pasting later today so you can see exactly what it looks like.....

Ok as for the vibrations ..I went over the head and I cant believe I found that a head botl had rattled free .....yeaht the nut that holds the head on from the top was gone gone gone...so i wenat over the head to be sure everything else was snug and use good ol lock tite on the metal to metal. I can see a bit of slop in the spin up...could be a slight bend in the main ...so I will pu a new one in the a.m. But I really dont think that is too much of a problem...I am using stock plastice scale looking blades but have balanced them.

I am able to get it off the ground but it should be coming up at about 55 on the throttle curve I figure...so what I tweeked that alittle to see if I could get better responce.

new curve: L = 0 2 = 28 3 = 58 4 = 80 H = 100

I did this to get alittle more head speed at mid stick ....I didnt touch the pitch curve....

pitch curve: L = 45 2 = 47.5 3 = 50 4 = 75 H = 100

I didnt think I should change them because from what i believe i understood is that this curve is designed to keep the heli pressing down while spooling up...
what do yo think.....again video is coming

Thanks again

 

[Tony]

You are correct, that would give you more head speed at mid stick. More head speed = more stable. Everything there looks good. Looking forward to the video.

 

[cantyman]

Hello Guys....
again I want to thank all of you who responded to my help request....the info all of you shared with me was spot on and I used a bit from each of you to help myself understand what was going on. Again it is very much appreciated. I know the requests were for me to attach video but was unable to because Of some tech problems Im having with my camers. I will resolve the issues and post when I can. But to let you all know ...the problems has been cured...with all of your help. I even have gone back to Tony"s base thottle curves 0, 25, 50, 75, 100 ...and the heli is flying fine. One thing I have noted is that the heli isnt lifting off until Im almost at 75% thottle....is this the norm...I do understand that at mid stick im at zero pitch...I would like to see the heli getting a pit more light at mid. Now I have set the ESC per the instuctions. I'll tell you it took of few times around that to get it what I believe is right. So any suggestions fellas? I wait and see what you guys say.

again all input is appreciated.....

I love this hobby man!!!!!!

 

[murankar]

I would recheck pitch curves and make those are dead on. I would also recheck you throttle range in your ESC.

There are two factors to look at enough pitch not enough head speed or not enough pitch and enough head speed.

 

[Tony]

Cantyman, Try the pitch curves below and see if they work better for you. If you have your head setup correctly, then 50% pitch should be 0º pitch on the blades. With that in mind, you should get what I'm getting at with the pitch and throttle curves posted below. as I have stated before, you must make your curves your own just as you will your DR/Expo.

Throttle Curve Normal
0, 45, 75, 85, 85

Pitch curve Normal
45, 50, 60, 80, 100

What that curve will do is not only give you more head speed to create more lift, but also will allow you to put more pitch on the blades at mid stick to get in the air sooner.

I do not suggest using the above pitch curve if you are going to run idle up. The reason is, your throttle may go up just a little bit, but your pitch will drop by 10% at mid stick but will go up by 5% at 75% stick. This will cause the heli to want to drop when you flip it into idle up.

But with that said, give it a try and see what you think. If you like it, great. If not, try something different to make it where you like it. Hope this helps.

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Please keep this thread on topic. I deleted some threads to clean it up. Thanks.