General Flybarless vs. flybarred

[RMB677]

After seeing all the discussions on setting up 3GX flybarless helis I note that it appears to be much more complecated than a flybarred heli. My experience is with 450 flybarred helis. When a new hobbiest is getting into the hobby and reads/views videos on the settup will he be discouraged? To me it seems that one also needs to be computer savy to download software upgrades for the 3GX. Also when one checks the availability of helis on the market things are leaning heavily to flybarless.

My point for discussion is: Are the technical advances in the hobby becoming too technical and possibly discouraging heli enthusiest from getting into the hobby?

 

[Slobberdog]

Flybarless is much easier to set up the heli, much less moving parts to get right,

yes the technical side of the gyros is getting more advanced but we are in a digital age, the use of a computer to set up some gyros can put people off and the fact that alot is produced in the far east and the language barrier sometimes gets in the way of instructions, 3Gx

Spectrums AR7200Bx can be set up on the heli no need for the computer and its incredably stable package,

So no I don't think that technical advances are getting in the way, not with knowlegde bases that we have at hand on the internet, in fact there are more beginner friendly heli's available now than there has ever been, I personally found that getting my flybarless heli in the air was a lot easier than sorting out my old fly barred heli.

 

[pvolcko]

Good thread topic!

Some thoughts from this relatively new guy to the hobby:

I think it is definitely heading in a direction that will leave a few middle aged and older people behind, if they are not savvy with computers and computerized electronics. They will still be able to get help from others and there are some options that do not require a computer to setup (7200BX, 3GX), but in general they may find themselves having to relearn or struggle a bit to keep up with the flybarless changes sweeping through the industry.

That said, I know a lot of "old timers" at my club who have made the transition without missing a beat. Some are even building custom quads which are notoriously difficult to setup on the electronics side of things.

And while just about everything new hitting the market is flybarless, the flybar stuff is still readily available on the new and used markets. This may change in the 3-5 year time horizon, but for now there is nothing preventing flybar guys from keeping going without making the shift to FBL.

As to setup difficulty between the two. If you are used to flybar setup and find the electronics laden setup of FBL a little intimidating, I guess I can see how FBL can look more difficult to setup. But for those just entering the hobby and familiar enough with electronics to program a DVR or get music on and off their iPods, the FBL setup is not that tough at all, especially compared to a FB setup with all the mechanical tinkering involved to get things right. With FBL you can be off a little bit on 90 degree servo arm positions, swash can be in the middle area of the main shaft at mid stick, so long as the swash is leveled at mid stick and the blades are at the same angle at mid stick (doesn't even have to be 0, but the closer the better) then the rest is fudgable with FBL setup and often tweakable through parameters. That's not to say proper setup with FBL is unimportant. It is important if you want a good, vibration free, perfectly stable, balanced setup, but it isn't absolutely required like it is with FB and even older FBL systems. The systems will correct for a lot of stuff, allow tweaks after the fact to mitigate bad setup induced behaviors, and in general are far more forgiving to the novice builder or even the experienced builder who is in a hurry.

Is all of this good for the hobby?

I think so. Easier out of the box flying behavior for new FBL bind and fly type purchases. Easier rebuilds and setups. Less parts to have to deal with. So you get more people willing to enter the hobby and more people sticking through their first crash. Also, and I think this is important at the margins, far less noise from the heli. I'm amazed at how much noisier FB setups are compared to modern FBL setups. For a new pilot the noise itself can be intimidating and draw unwanted attention, so I think that is all to the good too. On this point, the shift to electric vs nitro is a big improvement too.

Are there more movies in the hobby without proper setups and who haven't gone through the first build gauntlet? Yes, but I think the same number or more are making it through the first rebuild and setup, and subsequent fixing sessions, so I think it is a net positive. You still have a high bar to fly proficiently. There are still those who care about their builds and the setup and those who are less meticulous. It is still a technically oriented hobby with technically oriented people. So all to the good that a few more are coming to the door and making in through their initiation crash and rebuild.

 

[murankar]

This could be an endless argument but I am in the camp of fly bared is easier. Noobs usually dont have all the tools needed to build. Until they come to a forum like RCH and start asking questions. For an FBL setup one need explicit settings and setup along with a centain set of tools (pitch guage, swash leveler). Most not all but most will say "Well I am not flying inverted so why do i need to set IU1", I don't know how many times I have read this on here and a lot of that is due to not knowing. For an FBL unit to work right you need to do your setup for IU1 and you need your pitch range to be correct or you could have a failure.

With a flybared heli you can have some slightly loose setup parameters (mechanical) and the thing will fly, not well but it will fly. Flybared are more forgiving in the area of the swash level, because if it drifts you add some sub-trim and your on your way. With FBL its hit or miss as to weather or not you can add sub-trim and if you can then the pilot needs to know how to do this.

Personally I feel that if a noob is not mechanically inclined then they need to start out with a fly bar so they can learn the mechanical side of stuff. They when they upgrade to FBL they have a base of knowledge that will help them in the long run.