Drones In Oklahoma

Lee

Well-Known Member
There are already privacy laws!!! These ignorant fools are piling laws on top of laws.
 

Karubah

Member
Why is it just a few idiots can influence gov's and stuff up the ordinary mans life. The same sort of thing is happening over here.!!!
 

Tony

Staff member
Yeah it's getting pretty bad. Thankfully here in the stated, we have the AMA that is trying it's best to protect us.
 

Stambo

Well-Known Member
As far as I am concerned more power to them. If some crim is carrying a weapon I would rather the police knew about it.
If I am legally carrying a weapon what have I got to worry about.
(Won't happen in New Zealand as it is illegal to carry any concealed weapon.)
I think the right to privacy is being carried way to far when an individuals right to privacy puts others at risk.
Drones looking in my windows I oppose however any tool that gives the law a chance to prevent a potential homicide or another mass slaying has to be given due consideration.
Ask the families of people killed in mass shootings in the US if they would be happy for these technologies to be employed.
I am sure the answer of most would be an unequivocal yes.

Please note these are my individual opinions, you may not agree with them as I may not agree with yours however you cannot deny my right to express them as I cannot deny your right to disagree.
 

Tony

Staff member
Oh dont' get me wrong, I have no issue whatsoever with them knowing if I have a gun of knife. Hell, they can see both of them on my right hip and right pocket just by looking at me. I carry my .45 everywhere I go as well as my 4" knife. If I don't want to carry my gun, like I'm going out to dinner with the family, I never leave home without my knife, you just never know.

the issue I have with this is they are going to blow it out of control with calling them "drones". They are going to want to put massive laws on ALL unmanned aircraft, including but not limited to Rc Helicopters and airplanes, Rc Boats, cars & trucks and so on. If it's radio controlled, then they are going to try to ban it. This is where I, an Rc Forum Owner, have a problem with what they are doing.

Even though I do not have a chance to get out and fly now days, I still love this hobby and love the fact that I can help so many people with this little forum that I created. If they pass even half of these laws, Rc will die and it will die fast.

In the article they are talking about a helicopter that I can only suspect is a 700-800 size, but I can assure you, if they show a quad or a hexa, it will be even worse.

Here is hoping that nothing comes from any of this. I know the AMA is out there fighting every one of these laws for us.
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
Is it common that Americans are paranoid about their privacy?
There's been incidents before or something?

- - - Updated - - -

Because I see people just type in "1984" in the comments
 

Slobberdog

Well-Known Member
I don't understand. The public is afraid the government will spy on them?

lol like thats not happening now...............and not just in the states.

I might hit a sour note here but normally people only worry about things like this when they got summit to hide,
 

pvolcko

Well-Known Member
Is it common that Americans are paranoid about their privacy?
There's been incidents before or something?
- - - Updated - - -
Because I see people just type in "1984" in the comments

1984 is a reference to the novel and in general about overbearing, ever present, totalitarian government as described in the novel, and the belief that we are moving closer and closer to just such a state.

Paranoia is a strong word. Americans have a very healthy suspicion of government encroachment in their lives, both direct and indirect.

Going to rant a bit here:

We, historically, have protected our freedoms and our civil liberties with ferocity, even when it may result in criminals having an easier go of it. It is not alright for government to invade your privacy in the home, for instance, unless it is totally incidental (just happen to sweep a camera across your window and see you stabbing someone) or they have reasonable suspicion of an imminent crime taking place (they hear a scream, you don't answer the door, they can bust down your door).

There certainly have been cases of abuse of surveillance and search power. Police cannot, for instance, conduct a search of a home when they arrest someone, until they have attained a search warrant after submitting probable cause that there is evidence of a crime there to be found. This may seem silly, but it is important because innocents are arrested from time to time and getting a warrant is an important check on the police to make sure they aren't ahead of themselves. It is also important because people get arrested for lesser crimes (jay walking or a driving offense, for instance) and they have no reasonable suspicion that you have done any other crime, so they should not be able to look through your things in your home merely because they arrested you for a traffic accident.

Another example which may come into play on this specific issue of use of drones: there was a recent supreme court case in which a person was seeking a conviction be overturned because the police attached a GPS tracking device to his car without a warrant. The police then used the tracking device to establish patterns of movement and evidence of location, which lead to other warrants being issued and his eventual conviction on a drug charge. The case was brought by a man that was guilty of drug trafficking, but the case was not about him or his situation specifically, it was about the right of the government to effectively invade your privacy of movement within society without a search warrant.

The court found that the government *does* have this right, much to the amazement of many, including myself. They have the right to trespass on your property, attach tracking devices to your vehicle(s) and track your movements for an indefinite time without warrant or even probable cause. The reasoning? Because cops can visually track and follow you as you move about society (either by helicopter or by following in a car) there is no reason they should have to expend those kinds of resources when they could effectively do the same thing by tagging your vehicle and tracking it electronically.

Left unsaid is if they can use stop light cameras and other surveillance technology to do the same, perhaps even well after the movements occurred. This is very much in line with the plot devices of 1984 and is cause for quite reasonable concern for many US citizens, not just those with something to hide. Why? Because being accused of a crime and arrested is a very serious matter that in and of itself can ruin lives, or at least irrevocably alter them. Sometimes this power is abused and brought to bear against innocents as a means of intimidation or trying to coerce cooperation in a different matter. Other times it is mere incompetence. Whatever the reason, it must be brought to bear judiciously and with checks and balances to make sure people are reasonably believed to be guilty and warrant the invasion of privacy.
 

Tony

Staff member
Hey guys, this post was borderline political just with the topic, but it was RC related and thought it would get some better attention. However this thread is taking a political turn and when it does, I will have to remove it per the forum rules. I dont' mind banter and talking about the issues of what is going on, but lets make sure to keep it civil. Not saying it's not, but I have seen just how quickly things can take a turn. Just letting you guys know.
 

pvolcko

Well-Known Member
Sorry about that. I tried to keep my rant about history and present day facts and philosophies, and not about personal beliefs or overtly partisan stances. Hard to do on a topic like this, though. This is an area where our hobby is very likely to come under a lot of scrutiny in the coming years and it will be inexorably entangled in politics. So far the only way politics really played a role was in how the FCC allocated spectrum. Now the FAA is getting into the game with restrictions on altitude, purpose of use of aerial photography and videography, size/weight of the model, area of operation of the model, etc. The politics is coming. :)
 

callsign4223

Staff member
I have a unique perspective working for a local city government. I have actually been consulted a couple of times by our fire and police departments on questions about "drones". What they are really talking about are 600 size hexacopters usually. Our fire department wants one to track wildfires with and our police want one to assist with bomb and swat team calls. Because they have come into my office to ask me about them, the other guys in my office have heard the discussions and voiced their opinions on it. Their opinions generally follow the ones of the facebook posters, i.e. they are going to use them to violate our privacy so we should do everything we can to prevent their use. Whenever I try to point out the positive uses they could be put to while pointing out the fact that they could get their butts sued to heck and back if they misused them their response is usually that the government will find a way to misuse any technology it has. I can completely understand and agree with the fact that I don't want my local pd just flying a quad around to see what they can see, but these devices are being proposed for very limited situations. The general paranoia level is just off the charts.

Ohh, and in response to some of those facebook posters who said they would shoot it out of the sky. Go ahead, and have fun when I sue you for $2000 for materials and labor to rebuild another one.
 

pvolcko

Well-Known Member
I tend to agree, Matt. FD and PD use as a stand in for traditional helicopter purposes seems fine to me. I do worry about the PD thinking along the lines of "I can buy X number of helis for the cost of a year of maintenance, piloting, and fuel on a real helicopter, let's do it". And then they have a mess of drones with nothing to do. Idle hands, devils play thing, etc. Being able to post one of these on a person or a car or whatever and follow them around is a big issue in my mind. With old tech helicopters the cost and high skill piloting required was a natural check on the use or misuse of this kind of surveillance, but with the significantly lower cost of drone platforms and easy to fly skill set that natural check goes away and abuse becomes much more a concern. It can't and shouldn't be stopped entirely, but it needs to be monitored and a stronger set of judicial checks put in place on their use for person tracking/surveillance purposes. Same goes for use in various private sector purposes, particularly media use. Imagine paparazzi using these for snapping pics of people famous or infamous, high walls and window placement be damned. Private Investigators using them to spy on and snap pics of suspected spouses, etc. Corporate espionage.

Shooting out of the sky... chances are that doing so would be a crime anyway due to unsafe discharge of a firearm. Firing into the sky is frowned upon unless you're a ways away from a residence and the target is a duck or clay pigeon. :)
 

Wolfman

Member
Guys I believe that it can be a slippery slope for sure, I can see a whole lot of good uses for drones, IE searches, wild fire control, and even to assess large crime scenes. It is just going to take one overzealous person to really cause a lot of problems. Like my wife says it is best to stay away from conversations about politics or religion, keeps from having fights.
Randy
 

pvolcko

Well-Known Member
I'm the opposite. I enjoy a good religion or politics debate. But this isn't the forum for it. I do that on a politics debating listserve I'm on, and occasionally facebook. :)
 

Tony

Staff member
The whole reason I posted this is to shed light on what is happening to the RC industry by people that are just way too paranoid. IMO, I can put a camera on a stick and point it over the fence, and do it a HELL of a lot quieter to film my neighbor getting in the shower or whatever. I don't need a "drone" or quad or heli to do that. It's just something that I want people to keep in the back of their minds and if/when we need to act on it, we are all ready for it. The AMA is doing everything it can to help us, but there may come a time when we need more help.

Last I checked, it was illegal to stab someone but it's still legal for me to carry my knife into a mall...
 
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