Chargers DIY lipo 6s battery & voltage max for 450

[tommyboy660]

First off let me start out with i have a Trex 450 Pro 3gx that has been upgraded with an phoenix ice 50 esc, scorpion 2221-8, & currently runs on 3s lipos. My question for that is how do i go about to figure out the max voltage i can run ie cells i can run on it at once either in parrellel or in line?

After finding out that info i need to know for fact if this will be possible for my diy lipo build. So i have purchased 6x 2cell turnigy nano-tech 30c lipos 950mah each cuz they only cost me a mire $3.50 via hobby king so i figured i could do something with them. So if u havent donr the math atyet im planning on makin 2 full lipos that in my calculation, planning and theary should be 6s1p 30c & 2850mah all at under 300g & quite small at approx. 2"Lx1"Wx.75"D ill postexact specs & pics when i tackle the job. First off is this real world possible ive gone over itin my head many times & come out with the same answer of yes each time.

The reason i ask & would like others opinions on this, is if this is as easy as i believe it will be all while keeping under 300g, at 2850mah, & really quite small in oh & under $30 for 2 of them fully built then why is it ive searched all over & am unable to find any for sale of anywhere near those specs necause if i had that wouldve been ideal for all 450 heli owners aswell as alot of other brcaise it would also mean higher capacities for larger helis in small & lighter packs at low prices? The closest ive been able to find for an already built lipo is a 3000mah 3s @ 35c for $30 each off ebay and its.not necessarily a brand name either?

One last question how big of benefit am i looking at for my setup or a stock E-Flite Blade 450 3D between a 3s & 6s assuming the blade can even run on a 6s?

Thanks Tom & i hope i got atleast 60% if not beyter on my puncuation this time.

 

[pvolcko]

You want to go to a homemade 6S setup for your 450 which is currently on 3S? That's going to theoretically double your head speed, which the heli will not take. Chances are the motor will not handle the increased power flow either, nor the ESC. You'd have to investigate ratings on both components to see what they will handle. But again, even if the motor and ESC will do it, that doesn't mean the heli will withstand it.

Putting that all aside...

You need nine of those 2S 950mah packs to build a single 6S 2850mah pack. Wire 3 2S packs in series to get a 950mah 6S bundle, then parallel 3 of those together to get up to 2850mah. Balancing leads on each matching parallel cell trio will need to be paralleled and then brought out to a single 6S balance plug.

In such a configuration keeping the cells balanced will be critical. It will be easy for some to fall out of balance over time and as that happens some will get overcharged and over discharged, resulting in premature failure.

And, back to will the motor and ESC handle it: if the motor does handle it, the motor will be drawing far more current than it currently does at full throttle on 3S, which means your ESC may not handle it. And your current 50A / 2.8A = 18C draw will be much higher, possibly over the rating of the batteries. And even if under the rating, it will be close to max and will lead to heating issues. Your wire leads may not be large enough gauge to handle the increased power flow either.

Be very careful if you actually decide to go down this road. Quarduple check everythign you plan to do. Research your motor, esc, etc. and be sure it will all handle what you're trying to do. You may want to rip the motor and ESC out of the heli to bench test all of this first, just in case it does smoke you don't ruin the heli.

And, again, the heli is not going to be able to handle the headspeeds with that motor on double the voltage, assuming the motor can do it. You would have to regear it or, more likely, buy a different motor that has a lower kV rating but can handle 6S (and buy an ESC to match).

 

[Lee]

The motor you have is not a 6S motor. Its a 3S motor. This is the 6S Scorpion motor design specifically for the 450 size.Scorpion HK-2520-1360Kv Motor
The ESC will handle 6S because its what some people use in the Warp 360 which are made for 6S.
Here are some of the batteries you can choose from for a 450. http://www.prostarhobby.com/category-s/2061.htm
As stated above, your calculations need 9 of those 2S batteries to make a 6S pack, so it will weigh 450g and the batteries i linked above are only 265gram to 290grams.

 

[tommyboy660]

Ok this is why i love yhis site because of ppl like you two that are knowledgeable while the site itself may still be quite small in comparison to others but growing where it lacks on numbers it full heartedly makes up for in knowledge base compared to other sites, thank you both. Where have you both gained your vased knowledge on lipos as stated above? The only reason i was thinking about making a 6s lipo is that originally i had bought single raw cells so i thought 6 of them just to see if i could make a large capacity low weight ljpo that would work in my heli, i am not looking to gain head speed by any means cuz the faster things move the more likely they break. But when delivered they showed up as 6 2 cell lipos so now what o have i as a bunch of assorted sized of red & black shrink tibe witch i can save to use else where over time, about a meter of eacj of blacl & red silicone 12 awg wire, 2 wire harenesses for 6 cell lipos to make the small balance ports for each battery, some lipo shrink wrap witch i was gonna use to reshrink other batteries aswell so all are the same anyway but now that you all informed me of all of that that i did not previously know im in a slump of what to do with them? There is no point in trying to sale the batteries cuz i will maybe break even if not loose money so i mine aswell find some use for them, so what exactly can i do, could i possibly make a 3s lipo thsts under 300g? Cuz if i cant make a battery close to or better than what i can buy then there is no point when like i stated previously i can buy two pre built 3000mah 3s lipos that are under 300g on ebay for under $60. Any ideas on what to do i guess if all else fails i own a lipo operated soldering iron that works off a 3s but doesnt really requore any high out puts if i can rig one or possibly use them for led lights around my workbench idk im really out of ideas here. Ps please let me know where a good place i can read up on ghese lipos would be as far as the math part cuz so far i havent really seen any good equations or diagrams thanks both of you for your help i just hope one day i can start to repay some ppl on here by reyurning the favor or atleast paying it forward

 

[Tony]

If you run a 6s on a 450, then you need to go from a 3500kv motor to something around 1500kv to accept the extra voltage. It will also have to be able to handle 24vDC over the 12.6 from a 3s. As Lee stated, your battery will be heavier than a factory battery when you are done. The motor out of the Warp 360 will work since it runs on 6s, but only if the bolt holes line up. No matter what way you go, good luck with the result.

 

[Stambo]

Someone has to say it, I'm thinking WHY?
You can buy all the stuff you want to do ready made.
A lot less risk of mistakes and SMOKING things up.
Most quality batteries list matched cells which is unlikely with your DIY version.

Why would want to put 6s on a 450 unless you are doing some radical 3d stuff.
There are plenty of upgrade 3s motor/esc combinations to give better performance which are more than adequate for the average heli pilot.

PS I could not read all of your second post. My poor old eyes kept getting lost in that unformatted wall of text.

PPS Sorry if I sound a bit grumpy, I had a bad day.

 

[tommyboy660]

Yes thanks tony. I dont really have any desire to get another motor just to run a 6s setup, i just bought tje batteries to familiarize myself with lipos & have what i thought might be a cool project to challenge myself with. If possible my first choice would be to make these into a 3s that i can use then i can say yep i built that to have that satisfsction & to be able to get some use out of these things. Please give me a few suggestions, because this heli has been upgraded so much already with itsthird engine thus far luckily not by me but the previous owner though he did include them when i purchased it so itsits not like they burnt out or anything happened to the heli or anything that would first come to ones mind other thsn he just wanted to have the best of all worlds kinda like me lol. Or am i just at a total loss with them and better off putting them away in storeabouth

 

[Tony]

I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but if you are asking about motors and if you should replace them, that is up to you. If they work, no need to replace them. If they are burnt up, then trash them, they are not worth anything. For a 3s setup, you want 3400-3600kv and around 400-500 watts of power. Something like the Align 450MX motor would be perfect for a 450. Pair that with their 35a ESC and you have a solid setup.

 

[tommyboy660]

Sorry when using my phone it wont let me really format to well but im getting better. Sorry for the bad day & happy fathersday to all you out there. I realize u can buy alot of prebuilt options out there and my current scorpion motor & phoenix ice esc with the 3gx is over adequate for me for right now and probable along time into the future i just bought these as more of a challenge project cuz i got yhem for really good price to expand my knowledge of lipos & their physics & so far just off here ive learned tons about them just on here now if some could give me a link to see any of the equations or anything elsewould be awesome then i will be that much closer to self proficient in this catagory. Like previously stated i have 2 lipos on the way prebuilt off ebay for only $60 @ 3s 3000mah 35c so while not the top of the line but high mah for a good price at good weight under 300g. Thanks tom

 

[Tony]

Tommy, the easiest way to format your post is to put a carriage return in about every 2 to 3 sentences. As stated, a wall of text is very hard to read and even with me running this forum, I still can't read it most of the time. It's really long posts, or a "wall of text" if you will, that I look at, then usually pass right over. Just hit that carriage return button twice to drop down two lines then complete your next sentence.

If I was to keep writing this in the above paragraph, it would be harder and harder to read the longer I made it. If you by chance are using voice to text, take the time to stop and put in the return. Trust me, you will get a LOT more replies that way.

 

[Lee]

If you are considering to put the 3000 MAh batteries in your 450, you may find it hard to get it balanced. The normal battery is 2200 for a 450 and about 250g. Also you may not get the canopy to fit over the battery.
For your 2S btteries, find a small park flyer plane or a 250size heli that will fly with those batteries. I know the Gaui 2X will fly with 2S and many small planes.
Good luck.

 

[tommyboy660]

Ya the 3000 mah is about the same size as my 2200mah thats why i bought them. So i wont have any hard time with my canopy.