600 Building the JR Vibe NEX E8 - Slow Build

stokke

Well-Known Member
Went down to the post office today, picked up this beauty:

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I've been contemplating getting a big heli these last weeks. Actually, getting a "big girl" was the plan from the very beginning. The 450 is great and all, I love it, but when getting into RC helis; I, like everyone else, gazed up at those big impressive machines hanging from the roof in my LHS.

After visiting a local FunFly last month, I realized almost everyone had something from Align Corp. Then and there, my obsession with the Align brand ended. I really respect Align and their products, as I know they represent some serious quality, but I'm that guy who wants to stand out from the crowd. So I've been looking at SAB Goblin, JR E-series and Mikado Logo's. And as fate would have it, the shop were I'm a regular customer had 30-40% on all JR last week - so I placed the order :D

In the box.
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The size. I still can't get over how big this thing is!

Frame next to the 450.
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Boom next to the 450.
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The E8's blade holder next to the 450's.
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Canopy line up.
My very first RC, the 228 Solo Pro.
My 450 PRO.
My new NEX E8 :D
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This is going to be a project stretching over months to come. As the parts I've gotten now is only the body, and I still need to fill it with electronics and put on some blades. I have already blown my budget, and can't really afford anything else until Octobers paycheck arrives. Meanwhile I have the 450 to keep me occupied, and I'll have good time to choose which parts to buy.

This is going to be a 3D machine to the bone. I'm going with all power on everything; from engine to servos. I do not have a unlimited budget, but I'm not cutting corners or making big compromises.

This build raises a lot of new questions, as this is no "super combo". So you guys better get ready to answer questions, as well as giving your opinions as to which parts I should use.

The plan, as of now:

Scorpion Motor (around 500kv).
Scorpion or Hyperion ESC (90amp or larger).
Batteries 65c (don't know which brand yet).
JR servos (HV type).
Raddix 600mm blades.

I'll begin with looking through the instructions tonight, the box'll just have to wait on the shelf for now.
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
:triumphant:

GOOD JOB MAN!! THAT IS AWESOME! Finally I have another JR guy here!

DUDE YOU WILL NOT REGRET THIS BIRD!! Vibes roll like a TREX and track like a train.

you will see through the build that the build quality and sturdiness is out of this world. My Vibe nitro is like the beefiest heli i have see in 600 nitro size and man that beauty tracks !! Its my gem! The parts now for these newer models like the one you got are much cheaper. While for mine, they are much more expensive.. But when you look at it and compare the gears and shafts and strength with other good lines like align.. you'll see a HUGE difference!

Good luck with the build bro! you'l have fun! :)
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
Good luck with the build bro! you'l have fun! :)

Thanks Gaba :D

I already found this brand to be "something else"; the instructions are in perfect English! There's no Asian writing alongside some poorly translated English to be found in these pages!

Even though maiden hover is far away - I'm excited ;)
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
Nice one Marius. I look forward to seeing it in action. Big helis are so much easier to fly.
 

breeze400

Spagetti Pilot
I'm glad for you Marius! looks like it will be lots of fun to build and fly. With your great flying skills you should have a great time! Good luck!
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
I look forward to seeing it in action.

You and me both ;)
Thanks, Lee.

Well, get to building! No, not later, RAT MEOW! :biggrin1:

Sorry Tony, this is going to be a long one. My wallet won't allow any major payouts any time soon. As of right now, I believe she's to be finished in maybe January.

I'm glad for you Marius! looks like it will be lots of fun to build and fly. With your great flying skills you should have a great time! Good luck!

Thanks, Sam :)
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
OK, motor;

There's an ocean of motors out there, and I'm just getting more and more confused. Based on that Scorpion is a very popular brand in general, and that most of the 3D gurus use it, I guess I'll have a Scorpion motor as well. But all the motor sizes, KV ratings, watt ratings, torque ratings and pinion sizes does not make it easy to choose one. They're also very expensive, so the decision MUST be the the right one.

As stated previously, I would like this baby to be "torqy" as hell. Fast forward speed is not prioritized, but of course, I don't want it to be slow either :D The instructions calls for a 500KV motor, and I also see JR's 3D master uses a 500KV in the E8. My "problem" is that the E8 can hold a 50mm motor, but the "popular" choice is a 40mm. There is money to be saved on using a 40mm of course, but I can't help myself not thinking that I might be missing out on some power if going with the 40mm???

This is the "logical" choice: Scorpion HKIII-4035-500KV - Scorpion Power System

I've seen the E8 in action with this motor, and well; it looks pretty agile LOL :D
What you guys think?

BTW; this is to be a 12S set-up.
 
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Adam

Active Member
I just found this post this is awesome because even though you are a beginner i learned alot from your last build. Man i cant wait to see the progress from start to finish. Just awesome man.
 

Tony

Staff member
Wow, I don't think I would ever pay that for a motor lol. But they are some of the best out there. I'm sure you will lose some torque with the 40mm, but ti's not going to be much I don't think. Best thing to do is look at the specs and compare the watts of each motor.
 

murankar

Staff member
Well I wish I had some serious flight time on my scorpion motor but I don't. All I can say is that Scorpion is very high on the quality side, plus you can repair them if needed (big plus).

I also feel the same as you about Align. I can't deny that they make some of the best helis out there, why do you think some many people fly them. I too want to be different and some day hope to have my new heli.

Good luck and enjoy that build.
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
I just found this post this is awesome because even though you are a beginner i learned alot from your last build. Man i cant wait to see the progress from start to finish. Just awesome man.

Thanks, Adam :)
I'm going to go in to detail just as much as I did with the 450.
It's gonna take much more time though.

Wow, I don't think I would ever pay that for a motor lol. But they are some of the best out there. I'm sure you will lose some torque with the 40mm, but ti's not going to be much I don't think. Best thing to do is look at the specs and compare the watts of each motor.

I'm willing to bleed for the motor. 340 bucks is my limit.
I have been doing some more research about torque and what not, will comment about this further down.

All I can say is that Scorpion is very high on the quality side, plus you can repair them if needed (big plus).

Good luck and enjoy that build.

Good to know ;)
Thanks, Matthias.

____________________________________


I have done some more research. I found that in addition to KV, watts, pinions, poles and sizes, there's something called "winding" and "turns" as well. Not getting any easier - LOL :D

"Turns" affects the rotor RPM.
More turns: Higher power + Less RPM. EDIT. Not sure if this is correct.
Less turns: Less power + Higher RPM. EDIT. Not sure if this is correct.

"Winds" affects the efficiency (current draw) as well as the RPM and power.
More winds: More efficient.
Less winds: Less efficient.


There's also KV rating and watts to be considered;

KV says something about about RPM as well (it's also related to the winding and no. of turns). One is to multiply the motor KV with the battery voltage, then get the motor RPM. The motor RPM is not the same as rotor RPM, as the gearing (pinion and main gear size) determines this. Basically; the lower the KV = more torque, the higher the KV = more speed.

Then there is the watts, which is the easiest part = power. There's probably more to it, but I don't understand or care as of now :)

I've figured out so far:

I would like to be around 4000W of power.
I'd like to be on the torque side, rather than the speed side.
I'm willing to sacrifice some flight time to a power hungry motor.
I'd like a motor that don't have to work overtime during it's flight (not getting super hot).
I'd like a motor that will suffice with a 120A ESC.

Enough tech jibber jabber...
I see there are three very popular motors;

Align 700MX.
Scorpion 5020.
Scorpion 4035.

I think I'll end up with one of the above.


Well, I'll keep posting my findings as I keep reading.
Feel free to comment :D
 
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Tony

Staff member
Turns and windings, man this takes me back. Back in the brushed days, we had motors like 12x4, 10x2 and so on. What that means is 12 turns with 4 wires and 10 turns with 2 wires and so on. The more turns, the less power the motor will make meaning less torque. The windings is the "Punch" of the motor. The higher this number, the smoother the power would come on. I always ran single or double turns when racing because my finger controlled the power and I didn't have to wait for the motor to "come in". So turns means overall power and windings means how that power comes in.

It looks like you are doing this correctly by doing all of the research before hand. No matter what one of the motors you choose, make sure they can handle a 12s setup. Amps is not what you have to worry about, it's volts here. As the volts go up, the amps go down while producing the same watts.

Keep us posted.
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
The motor is a really hard choice. I've been reading and reading. Watching video after video...

I visited my LHS yesterday and got some pointers there. The clerks advice would be the 700MX, though he DID point out that this would be "over motoring" as he called it. But he agreed that he would have done just the same.

I'm also getting the impression that Scorpions tend to get a bit warm (at lest when comparing them to Aligns MX series). There's also the price; the MX is very cheap compared to the Scorpion motors.

Below is "my" bird with a 700MX 510kv.
I would be very satisfied if I could get this kind of power and agility.

JR E8+4 FBL (陽ã¡ゃん仕様) - YouTube

So now I think I'm leaning towards the 700MX. But we'll see...
 

Tony

Staff member
Align makes some great motors and if it were up to me, that is what I would go with. Cheaper and still have great power.
 

murankar

Staff member
Yes a scorpion system does get warm (both esc + motor), it's rated for over 300* F. I love my setup and hope it lasts a long time.
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
I've been collecting more info on motors.

I was recommended the SK3 series by Turnigy.
At first I was like; "Oh he*l no, I'm not getting any China crap".

But then I start reading comments, and sniffing around a bit - only good things to be found about this motor!
And then there's the price; SUPER cheap!

The cost alone makes me just wanna hit "order", if it turns out to suck, I'll just get another motor...

This is a horrible choice I have to make :(
But I guess I'll just have to try a few motors so I can get my own opinion about all the brands and what not.

Turnigy HeliDrive SK3 Competition Series - 4962-560kv (700/.90 size heli)

- - - Updated - - -

Just put the 560kv version in MrMel HS Calc, I'll get a minimum HS @ 2200.

2200 HS will be crazy at hovering, but I think I could live with this.
What you guys recon?
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
Check the Manual. 2200 hs!!! That sound high bro!! 600 size bird I would keep hs under or at 2k

Abd 700 size it's about 1800 I think.

You don't wanna see a head disintegrate in mod air, that's fatal for human and machine.. ;)

If manual says ok.. Then do it.. :)

Be careful. :)
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
I've been reading through the instructions and have noticed some oddities, and some new questions has arisen as well.

The instructions ask for two types of grease.
One "Thrust Bearing Grease", and one "Silicone Grease".

The bearing grease I have under control. But the Silicone grease?
What is this? Is it the same type of Silicone one would apply to car door rubber (the sort which prevents doors from freezing shut during winter).

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The instructions says to apply some grease to the main gear, is this where the "Silicone Grease" comes into play?

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There's also the matter of Thread Lock.
What I've learned; RED is HARD and PERMANENT - GREEN I never even heard about.

From what I could gather on the web, GREEN is not really a TL, but a sort of glue to fasten bearings to shafts and such. When looking through the instructions, this seems also to be the case.

So RED is really just TL, and GREEN is for bearings??

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Instructions state to use RED TL on for example the motor:
(which I believe should be secured with the hardest TL available).
P1010050.JPG


Comments?
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
Read up on the GREEN TL.

Turns out, Green TL is a "Retaining" adhesive.
Loctite (the brand) has many retaining adhesives, varying in viscosity and hardness (hard og soft).
As I would want to be able to loosen bearings from shaft sooner or later, I think I'll get a medium GREEN. I think...
 
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