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450 Budget 450 clone Ordered

Discussion in 'Helicopters' started by sarconastic, May 31, 2014.

< backwards flight 3gx tail blow out | Stupid Ikon >
  1. sarconastic

    sarconastic New Member

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    I have flown the blades off my V911 and now my v912. I have gotten pretty proficient at flying the v912, even in pretty hefty 8-10mph wihds for that heli. Nothing amazing but I can do 5 minute flights with no crashes, banking turns and the like. I was looking at getting a v913 as my next heli when I started doing some math and figured out that with some o the stuff I have already I can get into a CP trex 450 clone right now for just over $100. I dug and read and researched to death and finally order the kit and the pieces I didn't have. I have the FlySky Fs-T6 Radio and receiver, the ESC and the swash servos. Esc Programmer, 25C 2200 3s 11.1 Lipo Packs, And Zip tie to level my Swash (lol, I know I m Cheap.), I have My Emax B6 Charger and Power Supply too.

    So what I had to order is the Heli kit, The Swash Servo, a Gyro, a motor, and Swash level gauge and blade pitch gauge. So here is what I ordered.

    Hausler 450 V2 kit $69
    HobbyPower G401b Gyro $12
    Hobbymate HB2835H 3800Kv motor $17
    Emax Es09D Digital Tail Servo $11
    JMT KDS Micro Screw Heli Pitch Gauge $4

    Grand total $113, not bad for a 450 size CP heli.

    I realize none of what I ordered are top of the line but they should teach me about setup and if I crash it, it is an affordable repair on this heli. A few Align parts and I'm back in business. I was going to order a complete Hausler RTF kit but I decided to build it myself for the learning experience and of course the price. I couldn't touch the all metal Hausler for under $180. But for about $30 more than a V913 I get a lot more bird.

    When I got back into this flying Hobby I was stuck on Airplanes, since that what I did back in the day. I had no Idea how much I would enjoy the helis. I guess I am hooked. Still got a brand new 182 Trainer in the box I haven't even assembled and a new heli on the way. Maybe I should go crash that first to get it out of my system lol. . LOL. So now I continue reading on settings of the pitch, gyros settings, swash leveling to learn all I can. etc. etc. etc. Any advice anyone has I am open to it. My main concern is getting the curves and everything right in the radio. Not a lot of info on the Flysky stuff but I will get it figured out for sure.

    Later

    Woody
     


  2. Lee

    Lee Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with the new heli.
    We'll be here to help with any issues or queries you have.
     
  3. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    Let is know if you need anything. So your going with a fly bar then?

    Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner
     
  4. sarconastic

    sarconastic New Member

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    Thanks Lee,

    and Murankar, yeah I am starting with a flybar. The kits are really cheap right now and I figure I can always upgrade the head at a later date from what I have read. I also figured for my first CP I should stay as simple as possible. The setups on the FBL look like they have a lot more of a learning curve. And I am an impatient man and want to fly yesterday. LOL. I really like the looks of the FBL units though. I'm not doing any fancy 3D flying so I think with a little TLC and some selective upgrades this kit should do me well for a while.

    Helis have turn into a great thing for me to share with my 4 year old Grandson. Now when my grandson goes to the other grandparents houses he always walks in the door and says Hella Coppa? and they have to explain that it is The other Grandpa who has the helicopters. So he immediately turns around and heads for the door and starts telling his mom, " Go Grandpas and fly hella coppas". With my V911 and the V912 I have been able to let him help to some extent. I turn off the Throttle on the radio and he is my launch setup guy and my retriever on the odd chance that I crash (that never happens, lol). He is such big stuff when he gets to do that. He carries to the field when we fly and back tot eh house when we are done. It will be quite a while before I let him do that on the 450 class though (when power is applied). The danger factor scares me a little, will have to do a little more safety awareness with this one.

    But I can't wait to see his eyes the first time I bring this one out. They were the size of saucers when I showed him the v912 for the first time.

    Woody
     
  5. Stambo

    Stambo Well-Known Member

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    I have a 5yo son that loves to see my v911 and v959 fly.
    He also gets a kick out of my 450 size quads.
    Knowing what a 450 helicopter is capable of damage wise and knowing that with the complexity of these things, anything could go wrong, I will not fly it when he is around.
    You have so many moving parts that could fail and make the bird uncontrollable, be they electronic or mechanical.
    You have a clone rather than a higher quality machine to add to the mix, and then you have an inexperienced pilot who's attention is split between the bird and his grandson.
    My advice for what it's worth is DON"T DO IT.
    Unless he is in a car or behind some sort of protective screen.

    I will not fly my 450 or 500 machines when children are about.
    Hell I am still a bit nervous when there is another adult around.

    If you don't know what these things can do, check youtube for RC helicopter injuries.
    I don't mean to be a party pooper but I also don't want to say I told you so.
    These things are dangerous.
     
  6. sarconastic

    sarconastic New Member

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    Stambo, we already have a protective screen in place for him to watch from behind, it is a n old recording screen I made to place in front of a set of drums for my band. It is 1/4" lexan, and stands 6 feet tall, and about 7 feet wide, sort of like a japanese privacy screen, I started using that when I got the V912, But when I said it would be a while, i meant years, not any short length of time. I have watched the videos and fully respect the power of these heli's, So the grandson will be watching from a distance with the big helis and behind the screen too.

    I had an eye opening experience with the V912 couple of months ago that gave me even more reason to be extra safety conscious. I had been hit by the blades of the v911, no problems at all, even the v912 wasn't too bad if it hit you in the leg etc. I think flying the little heli can sometimes be a bad thing when it comes to safety.but I was hand launching the v912 because the grass in the field was too tall to do a ground launch, it was a little windy and I was launching into the wind(which i know now is a bad idea) Anyway. I throttle up and she takes off and goes out about 10 feet, a wind gust comes up and then she comes straight back at me and the rotors rapp me right across the knuckles as I try to block the heli with the transmitter as it heads for my face. Left a nice little mark on my knuckle and hurt for several days. It was then I realized what if this had been a 450 class or larger I would have had an emergency room visit, missing fingers or worse.

    That was what started my safety conscious flying attitude. Guard for anyone near the flying area ( even me). safe take off distance between me and the heli, Spectators are now relocated to the deck some 75 to 100 feet behind the flying area, Throttle cut off switch enabled when not flying etc. No flying overhead anymore. Just about anything I can do to prevent anyone ever getting hurt because of my hobby. I am sure once I get the 450 going I will be even more conscientious and everyone will think I am being over protective. but I am printing out some pictures an will have them a handy to show them in case they think that.

    Thanks For the concern too. It is very important that people are aware of what a machine like this can do. I get the jitters every time i see a 9 or 10 year old kid flying one unsupervised on a YouTube video. Maybe they are experienced and well trained but i would venture to say probably not, just a gift from the dad and saying have a good time son, don't kill anyone. Not knowing that could happen in the right circumstances.

    Woody
     
  7. sarconastic

    sarconastic New Member

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    Obviously I am going to have a hundred questions during this build, but one thing I need to figure out before I get too far in is this. Every build I look at is setting this heli up for 3d flying. Maybe someday that will be on my list, but right now it is not even a distance thought In my head. I like just flying for now and want to become proficient at that first. So my question is this. Having the throttle/ pitch curves set up switch doesn't even appeal to me right now with the flying inverted rates. For me it is an accidental crash waiting to happen. So can I set this up like I do my planes with a dual rate that allows me to crank it up or down instead of invert the setting for things like inverted flight. Or should I just set both rates to the same stock (NORMAL FLIGHT) degree/throttle values and then just limit servo travels with the dual rate switch percentageS?

    Thanks

    WOody
     
  8. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

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    Well, there are probably several ways that you can go about this. You can easily setup your blade pitch to +/- 10 degrees, which is good for any starter 450....or any starter heli at all.

    You can set the Pitch Curve gently, like this:
    Normal Mode: 46,48,50,75,100
    Stunt 1: linear - 0,25,50,75,100
    Stunt 2: linear (if applicable)

    Your Throttle Curve like this:
    Normal Mode: 0,35,70,70,70
    Stunt 1: 85,85,85,85,85
    Stunt 2: 95,95,95,95,95 or 100,100,100,100,100

    The reason I say this is because you can use your Normal Mode settings to get off the ground and do some casual flying. The flat 70, above mid stick will allow you to only run your helicopter with the assign pitch curve. You could, then, easily flip to Stunt 2 for a bit higher head speed and an almost certain smoother flight because of the higher head speed. This is exactly how I have my 450 and my 500 setup and it works very very well. I'm no 3D pilot (yet) but I find these settings to be very effective for a smooth flight and smooth hovering.

    As far as your dual rates....I think I have all my dual rates at 75% with 10% expo. You can start with that but to be honest, you may find that "my settings" won't be comfortable for "you". You'll have to find a starting set of rates (mine for example), go fly your helicopter, then make the changes necessary to suit you. Everyone is a bit different, in one way or another. You may find that you want more or less dual rates. You may find that you want more or less expo.

    I wish ya luck buddy and feel free to keep asking questions!!!
     
  9. sarconastic

    sarconastic New Member

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    Thanks:notworthy: Derek, that is exactly what I was looking for. wasn't sure I got it across right. :wink: I am pretty sure I only have two rates, as the FS-T6 has only a 2 position switch for it. But that should be ok for me for now. Have you found different kv motors make you change your percentages for your rates? I ordered a 3800Kv before I saw everyone normally recommend a 3500KV motor to start with. I never have been quite normal though.

    My main thing is to be able to fly this thing and replace/upgrade parts as I "want" to not have to from a crash LOL.

    Thanks

    Woody
     
  10. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

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    To be honest with you...I don't know. I'm still flying the original 1600kv motor in my 500 and I have about 8 flights on the 3600kv motor on my 450. I imagine there will be some differences between the kv ratings. A 3400-3500kv motor will likely have more torque than our 3600-3800kv motors.
     
  11. Stambo

    Stambo Well-Known Member

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    Woody it's good to know that you share my safety concerns.
    The last thing I would want to hear is a toddler getting hurt by an RC helicopter.
    It has happened before but I make damn sure it won't happen to me or my family, and hopefully never to anyone else in the RCH family.

    Good luck with the 450, I would suggest expo of as much as 30% on elevator and aileron, then reduce as you get used to how twitchy they can be when coming from a stabilised smaller helicopter.
     
  12. sarconastic

    sarconastic New Member

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    Wow I didn't realize the 500's dropped that much in KV. I will just test it out when I get it here. Gotta while to contemplate while awaiting that slow boat from China.

    THanks

    Woody
     
  13. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the stock Align motor, that came with my 500, is a 1600kv. I think I've seen a 1500kv but i dont remember where I saw it.

    Where did you get your motor from?
     
  14. sarconastic

    sarconastic New Member

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    I just picked up a hobby power 3800Kv motor from amazon to get started. I read a lot of setup and builds about 450's and got numbers from 3500Kv to 4200Kv with no solid answers on the one that is best so I Shot for the middle of the road. Should be ok though. Right now cheap is the ticket, maybe later I will get something better.

    Woody
     
  15. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

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    You "shot for the middle of the road"....I surely can't fault you for that. I lower kv motor will have more torque and less high end speed. A higher kv motor will have higher high end speed and less torque. I've recently met a guy on Youtube that runs a 3600kv motor with a 13 tooth pinion. He gets some "mad" head speed and he loves it. He flies it very well.

    So...that being said...I hope your 3800kv motor shows up quickly and I absolutely wish you the best of luck with the progress. Keep posting your questions as they arise!
     
  16. sarconastic

    sarconastic New Member

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    Derek, From my limited experience having a higher head speed would probably suit my flying style me pretty well. The motor I got came with a 12T pinion but I also order a 11T as well. and My brain wasn't working when I did. I have duplicates of just about every RC pinion available to man from my RC car days. I just about bet they will work on the new motor too.

    I just got a message that the Heli kit will be delivered today USPS. So I will probably have to drop by the post office this evening because I will have the little pink tag in the mailbox, "Too big to deliver". Excited all the same WooHoo. That was pretty fast too.

    Later

    Woody
     
  17. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like it's going to be a good day, Woody! Have fun with the build!!!
     
  18. murankar

    murankar Moderator Staff Member Armed Forces

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    Higher head speeds will help with stability and inconsistency with your stick inputs. Lower head speeds will teach you how to fly.

    Once you learn the inputs and corrections then lower your head speed to refine your skills. I run between 2700 and 3300 rpm i can auto better (if thats what you call it on a 450) at the higher head speed.

    Good luck.

    Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner
     
  19. sarconastic

    sarconastic New Member

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    ITs here, its here, its here!!!!!! I got it this afternoon. Amazingly fast shipping. Got the motor too. So I built it tonight. I went through it from top to bottom. Found a few things I need to replace already. Emailed the seller on Amazon and we'll see what they do . But it is all together, I love it. I can definitely see what people mean by quality control on China Clones. I think I am going to blow it all apart one more time and completely finish a lot of the parts. Will help me be more familiar with the bird too. Like you can tell they Stamp out the carbon fiber frames, they are not machined. The edges are terribly rough on one side.

    Still awaiting the Gyro and the tail servo. I was planning on using an 50 AMP Mystery ESC I had laying around, but changed my mind and am going to go ahead and order a 40 amp unit. The 50 is just too big and bulky. Plus it has an external BEC which in one more thing to find a way to mount.
    I couldn't believe how small the box it came in was though.
    450 box.jpg packages.jpg


    Here she is complete, less gyro, esc and digital tail servo. Still a lot to do before maiden, just anted it together to see how she looks.
    hausler 450.jpg

    Got a few questions, though. One is on the setups I have read and watched they say to get the Aileron servo rods as close to vertical as possible. With the way the carbon fiber mounts works it put the arms out quite a ways. Is this acceptable.
    aileron angle.jpg

    The Elevator Servo has a similar issue, where the rod is a bit off center. the servo arm sits exactly in the middle. Not sure of the best way to fix them. I coul dmove them to the inside of the frame and run the screws in from the inse but I don't like that idea too much. I could see the elevator being more of an issue causing it to adjust with different rates.

    Also one bushing was missing from the mixing arms on the tail, where can I get them incase I can't get the seller to send me the missing pieces. Or do I just orde the whole arms?

    missing link.jpg

    The only other things I have found with the kit so far are, I need to get new Fly bar paddles, the holes are not straight and the paddles set on the arm wonky. Funny enough I had align paddles ordered already. The missing bushing of course. and the canopy not being that great, a little misshapen. I planned on getting an Align canopy eventually anyway, I like the looks of them better.

    Other than that it seems to be a pretty good starter kit for me. I figure another $20 ad I'll have it where I want it.

    Still got a lot to do though,

    Balance and CG Blades and Tail blades.
    Servo centering
    Swash Leveling
    Tail mixing centering
    Tons of radio setup.

    Time for bed and hit it again tomorrow.

    Later

    Woody

    450 box.jpg

    packages.jpg

    hausler 450.jpg

    aileron angle.jpg

    missing link.jpg
     
  20. Stambo

    Stambo Well-Known Member

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    I may be wrong but those servos look like they should mount inside the frame, that would probably straighten them nicely. :)
     
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