General Blade or epo?

[coolgabsi]

Hey guys, I ha e been trying to research this. What's better than asking people.. Lol..

Can you guide me, whether balsa wood planes are better or epo!? I know I kinda asked this before, but, I wanna ask this from a detailed oriented perspective. Like pros and cons. Wind penetrability, stability, life, cost, repair time, looks... junk like that.

Stage is open for suggestions..

Thanks

 

[Tony]

I'm all balsa from now on. Foam is just cheap, and looks cheap. Exactly what I would expect from China. Made In USA, Made With Balsa!

 

[breeze400]

Wood is always better than foam! It just stands to reason. Foam crumbles when you crash! You already fixed your trainer. What do you think would have happened to a foamy is a crash like that? Totaled comes to mind! Lol

 

[coolgabsi]

It's true that I fixed the trainer, but just saying, balsa shatters too. I am
Just wanting to discuss this that why is foam not better. Is it not heavy enough to fly? I know I had some tragedy with the foamie trainer I built. And the f22... They both died. Because the body crumpled. I didn't like that. Yes repaired balsa looks 'like new"... But tell me this...

How about the insulation 1/2inch foam we use in houses I just saw some lying around at my back yard, is that good material to build? It was light (not as light as balsa or the dollar tree foam but you know.. ) and then it was sturdy... Would that be a good substitute to dollar tree foam... ?? I would love to gain knowledge about this from y'all!

Wood looks good.. As Tony said. True.. For a beginner like me who doesn't have skills or tools for wood, would it be a better choice for a beginner to go with a epo one like from nitroplanes or say hobbyzone supercub or whatever.. Or , still you would suggest wood.

Don't get me wrong I don't regret getting my nexstar.. Its awesome!! just wanting to know stuff.

 

[RCD]

Wood looks alot nicer than foam, but foam is WAY easier to fix! Foam will flex alot in high G's but if you do too many g's with a wooden plane, it will crack it. 1/2 in foam is really strong!

 

[Tony]

That foam you found is foam core, people build with it, but once you even think about touching the ground, it shatters and there is no putting it back together.

If you want to get really technical here, I am a beginner in flying. I have spent more time fixing and maintaining websites than I have flown (that is about to change). I do not have that much time under my belt on the sticks. Gaba, you have more time on the sticks than I do. But, I fly with balsa in my Edge. Never crashed. I almost did on final approach, but was able to pull out of it and land safely. Now, I have 3 more balsa planes (all 3D) and I plan on having the same luck with them.

The key here is patience. You let your friends either talk you into doing something above your skill level, or you wanted to show off for them and lawn darted that plane into the ground. When I fly, and I have flown with Wayne and Louis by my side talking to me, they never asked me to do anything "out of my range" nor did I try to show off. My landing sucked both times that I had someone there cause I was trying too hard to make it perfect, but they landed.

Here is the bottom line of it all. If you are wanting to go cheap, get foam. Like Travis said, unless you brace the crap out of it, it's going to flex and could break if you do a high "G" maneuver. Balsa is a lot stronger than foam, that is why you will see planes like mine doing snap rolls from 50mph, and never flex a wing. But, foam is cheap, that is it's point. But it looks cheap as well. I want smooth, I want to see lines from the balsa so I know it's quality. If we want a smooth rounded area, then we will sheet it with 1/16" ply (like on the turtle deck).

Either way you go, you have to watch out for hangar rash. If you bump a wing into something, I don't care if it's foam or balsa, it's going to leave a scar. If you grip balsa in the wrong area, you will snap a spar very easily.

I don't think I can explain it any better than that. If you want cheap, get foam. If you want quality that will last a long time, get balsa and ply.

 

[coolgabsi]

That's all I wanted.. The friend I had with me that time, did make me nervous. Yes I did crash because I got nervous.. Anywaz.. The next time I have flown ...that is three times... I had an experienced trainer talking and telling me what to do. So yes I am gonna take it patiently as you told..


I guess balsa is the way to go. Heehee

 

[RandyDSok]

Several of the qualities that were asked to be reported about can't be answered generically... You can only talk about them when you are talking about a specific model. So right away "Wind penetrability, stability, life, cost" have to be thrown out of the question simply because each model of both types of build material ( ie balsa or foam ) will differ in some way or another.

You can see what I'm talking about by making the same comparisons of the same type of plane made by different manufacturers but both use the same sort of materials ( quality aside )... Take two separate planes made by top makers ( who stand behind their products like NO others period )... the 3D Hobby Shop 48" Edge 540 and the Extreme Flight Edge 540T-EXP. Both fly awesome and yet behave differently in the areas I listed above. So just talking about one brand vs another means those will differ no matter what.

I know I threw out cost earlier but still... I'll go there

Cost wise for initial purchase... taking the electronics out of the picture since both can use the same equipment if they are made for it... Foamies win at least at present. What drives the foamy market at this time ( ie why most people buy them more than any other reason ) is that because they are molded instead of assembled... it is cheaper to make because less manual labor is involved.

Repair cost wise... Hard to say since in many cases with foamies when you have to repair them, you buy another complete component ( ie fuse, wing etc ) and a balsa/ply model you can buy a sheet of balsa or whatever to make a repair with. Repairing a balsa/ply can be done to a point that it is barely noticeable... If you have to replace a chunk of a foamy it is going to hard to hide it.

Difficulty of repair. In general most foamies are going to be slightly easier to repair even if you can't get the looks perfect, which can be done with a balsa/ply plane by a good modeler, but that also depends on which type of foam we are talking about... From the EPS ( beer cooler ) stuff up to the more resilient EPP and the stiffer ( read more brittle ) Depron. To repair most foamies, you straighten out what you can, plug in the pieces that came off and hit it with foam safe CA or whatever glue you like.

The difficulty of repairing balsa/ply are for the most part mostly over exaggerated, by either the completely inept ( at making any type repairs ), completely lazy, or the guys that never even tried probably because they let themselves become intimidated by the previous lot. Most repairs will only consist of pushing the balsa back into place ( ie the cracked parts ), hitting it with some CA, sanding a bit and replacing any torn covering. On the tough repairs... it is as simple as cutting out the badly broken piece, cutting in a new piece of wood ( if you can cut a square piece of wood, you are good to go ), hitting it with CA and filler if you didn't get the cut in piece just perfect... sanding and covering.

Ok... enough about repairs... simply put, both can be repaired relatively simply if you will just do it. The foam, if repairable is a little bit quicker but not a lot for the same amount of damage. Still, the type of foam does come into play since they differ a lot... an EPS foamy will probably not be repairable but an EPP may not have even broken during the same type of crash... and the balsa may have a little damage but probably won't be much. Really bad crashes on any type means time to replace.

Looks.... Obviously this is going to be a subjection opinion subject... To me all of the commercial foamies have that alligator look. Covered commercial balsa you may see a few seams but that is all. So in that part of this category... balsa wins. On the otherhand... foamies will usually have scale features that the balsa's will have overlooked... granted the panel lines are a MILLION times bigger than a true scale model will have.

Quality... this is a tough one... but balsa by a long shot... LOL. Let's face it, the reason there is a market for foamies is because they are cheaper to produce... which lends to the manufacturer also being cost aware ( ie cheap ) so quality suffers plain and simple.

Flight stability... again balsa/ply wins. This isn't because they can't make foam rigid... when they do it is brittle and can't hold up... or it is flexible and you can't have accurate flight characteristics.

For me... the flight performance issues will also make me choose balsa/ply over a foamy for at least planes over 40" or bigger. For smaller, mostly profile types, I'd probably pick a foamy since I'm only going to get it for practicing around the house or so I can stuff it in the trunk and not worry about for the quick flight during lunch hour or whatever like that ( not to mention flying at the house in a neighborhood ).

Randy

 

[coolgabsi]

randy i love your detailed reviews / advice! thanks!

i appreciate it a lot!

i think i got exactly what i was looking for...

 

[Keith]

Hi Gaba, I don't go with all the talk about what looks cheap and what IS cheap... It comes down to the builder... Early on I spent lots of money on balsa kits before all this ARF, RTF came along that turned out terrible... All because I was not experienced at building... You need three things to make good models, reasonable material, correct tools and patience...
Here is my latest creation, all scratchbuilt from polystyrene... This comes out at around 1.6 kilos.... (sorry, the ailerons are a strip of balsa T/Edge)

 

[coolgabsi]

Keith that does look beautiful... What material is that ... I have never used that. How do you cut/paste/cover it?

Good job on that plane. And it has killer throws on the elevator. Lol awesome bombee door ! hope to see it fly very very soon. Down look good. How durable / fixable is this material.

Honestly I couldn't have made a good scratch built balsa thing either.. But I think I like arf balsa kits that they have now.. educate us (me) about this material. does it crumple on crash.. ?


One little question... If a kit calls for 10 or 20a esc.. And I put a 40 a in there, does it affect it. ??? Is it bad...?? Please let me know ! Thanks!

 

[Tony]

Everything is based around the motor. If the motor is only pulling 20 amps, you can put a 1000a ESC on it and won't have an issue. You are just putting unneeded weight on the plane. Same with the battery, if the motor is pulling 20 amps, and you are running a battery that can handle 60, then you are adding unneeded weight. but, in my eyes, I would rather put a 10 amp cushion on everything. My motor in the extra is only pulling 30 amps, but I have a 40a ESC on it. My batteries can also handle 40a. this just means that everything will stay cool and it will run like it's supposed to. i do believe I have covered this in a video somewhere, not sure though.

 

[Keith]

It's very light Gaba... Fairly brittle, and will crumble and snap quite easily... Very easy to work with though, sands well and cuts and shapes well with a hot wire foam cutter... Where ever I need reinforcing I put CF tube... I lay a straight edge down and run a soldering iron along it and drop the tube in... A touch of hot glue and its done... Here is a close up of the material looking at the nose steering set up....






The covering adds a bit more strength but is another skill learned over time... It's a heat shrink film with a heat activated adhesive... This is the first time I've used it on foam and was quite pleased with it... It's all I ever used on balsa models apart from tissue in the early days... There are a few vids on YouTube showing how to use it... Do a heat shrink covering search...
A bigger amp ESC will not do any harm apart from the extra weight you will be adding...

 

[Tony]

Search monokote or ultracote GABA. Same thing as what Keith is talking about.

 

[breeze400]

Looks prety cool Keith! What are you going to drop out of the bomb bay?

 

[Keith]

Parachutists, Foam balls, flashing LEDs and the family cat... Not all at the same time...